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Author Topic: Getting around the 8000 limit without using apps  (Read 14442 times)

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Offline willrandship

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Getting around the 8000 limit without using apps
« on: March 10, 2011, 11:40:11 pm »
The 8000-byte limit in asm-based prgs is a pain, and the only way I've heard so far to get around it is to make an app. However, there are certain things you can't do inside of apps. An easy way to make a program that gets around this would be basic + a hex code to allow Archiving/Unarchiving, but the cool way would be to have your program run inside of another asm program, that copies the code to and from, say, an appvar, as you run it.

Example:
asm(prgmGAME
[Begin Pseudocode]
Copy 1-8000 bytes AppvGAME To an asm PRGM
Run asm prgm
(AsmPrgm throws an interrupt back at line 7999)
Copy lines 7999~15999 over 1-8000
repeat until return statement, when it quits

This would theoretically allow for 1.5 MB apps outside of Apps, just archived, variable size, read/write, anything you want. Of course, the BASIC one is much easier :P but you can't share variables across the prgms unless you copy them to TIOS, which would be slower than just using one asm brick.

What do you think?
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Offline Compynerd255

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Re: Getting around the 8000 limit without using apps
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2011, 12:03:59 am »
Why is there an 8000 byte limit? Does it have to do with Axe's capabilites? Or is it a TI-OS thing? If the latter is the case, compile to Ion. MegaMan for 83 Plus is a gigantic 18000 byte program.

But, if the former is the case, it looks like this solution would work. Many BASIC RPGs create XTEMP programs to have giant apps composed of many subprograms. Now, you would have to be able to use HEX assembly to copy the program.

Also, does this 8000-byte limit apply to the executable, or just the source? Eitrix's executable is approaching 8000 bytes, but the source is around 4500 bytes.
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Getting around the 8000 limit without using apps
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2011, 12:06:40 am »
Back in the days, the TI-83 Plus SDK to create APPs was not free and TI sold apps for money too. TI added a 8 KB limit to prevent people from repackaging apps as 8xp files.
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Offline ralphdspam

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Re: Getting around the 8000 limit without using apps
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2011, 12:10:43 am »
@Compynerd255 this limit applies to the executable, not the source.
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souvik1997

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Re: Getting around the 8000 limit without using apps
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2011, 12:10:44 am »
The  8kb limit is a hardware based limit, even if you made a third-party OS you still can't execute code from $C000. You could get around the limit by copying executable code to SafeRAM and executing from there.
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Offline Hot_Dog

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Re: Getting around the 8000 limit without using apps
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2011, 12:11:15 am »
That's actually not bad.  However, copying 8000 bytes of code takes about 1/35 of a second, so there would be lags from time to time

Incidentally, I did not know that the SDK used to cost money, even though I knew that some applications did cost money
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Offline willrandship

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Re: Getting around the 8000 limit without using apps
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2011, 12:18:58 am »
Yep, but they made it free, along with an app signing key.
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Offline ralphdspam

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Re: Getting around the 8000 limit without using apps
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2011, 12:41:42 am »
They should have made it free in the first place.  Now we have to go through all of this trouble because TI does not want to update their os to allow unsigned apps.  If anyone can make an app, what is the use of all of the safeguards? ???
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Offline Raylin

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Re: Getting around the 8000 limit without using apps
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2011, 12:43:47 am »
Quote from: souvik1997 on March 11, 2011, 12:10:44 am
The  8kb limit is a hardware based limit, even if you made a third-party OS you still can't execute code from $C000.

I can. >:3
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Getting around the 8000 limit without using apps
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2011, 01:06:48 am »
Lol how do you do it Raylin? Do you use a TI-73 running a TI-83+ OS? :P (These have no 8 KB limit)
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Offline leafy

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Re: Getting around the 8000 limit without using apps
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2011, 01:08:45 am »
What I would be more interested in is seeing Quigbo break the 1 page app limit.
I know, far-fetched. :P
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 01:08:54 am by leafiness0 »
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Offline Raylin

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Re: Getting around the 8000 limit without using apps
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2011, 01:49:25 am »
Quote from: DJ_O on March 11, 2011, 01:06:48 am
Lol how do you do it Raylin? Do you use a TI-73 running a TI-83+ OS? :P (These have no 8 KB limit)

Great success, sir. Right on the money.
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Getting around the 8000 limit without using apps
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2011, 03:05:21 am »
Lol nice, although your signature doesn't state anything about how you got a TI-73 running a 83+OS ???
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Offline Compynerd255

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Re: Getting around the 8000 limit without using apps
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2011, 11:51:32 am »
Quote from: ralphdspam on March 11, 2011, 12:10:43 am
@Compynerd255 this limit applies to the executable, not the source.
Then how come 10K programs, such as FireTracks and Megaman, can exist?
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Offline Deep Toaster

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Re: Getting around the 8000 limit without using apps
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2011, 11:54:52 am »
Quote from: Compynerd255 on March 11, 2011, 11:51:32 am
Quote from: ralphdspam on March 11, 2011, 12:10:43 am
@Compynerd255 this limit applies to the executable, not the source.
Then how come 10K programs, such as FireTracks and Megaman, can exist?

The only restriction here is that you can't execute code >8811 bytes from the start of the program. You can always have data there, however.

In other words, you can have an 12-KB program that has 8 KB of executable code at the beginning and 4 KB of data at the end, and it'll run fine.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 11:55:47 am by Deep Thought »
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