Author Topic: [Controversial] Better Axe Documentation Could Be Needed  (Read 18162 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Matrefeytontias

  • Axe roxxor (kinda)
  • LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
  • **********
  • Posts: 1982
  • Rating: +310/-12
  • Axe roxxor
    • View Profile
    • RMV Pixel Engineers
Re: [Controversial] Better Axe Documentation Could Be Needed
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2014, 01:26:53 pm »
Example:
Code: [Select]
Before: EXP▶Hex     Converts the number to hexadecimal and returns the pointer to that string.
Code: [Select]
After: EXP▶[HEX] -> PTR  Converts the expression to hexadecimal and if a pointer is declared it will be available at named pointer.
Unnecessarily verbose in my opinion. It's exactly saying with more words what was written already, without any further explanation. Also, you're supposed to know how to read the rest of the documentation and see that you can store numbers into variables.

Offline thepenguin77

  • z80 Assembly Master
  • LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
  • **********
  • Posts: 1594
  • Rating: +823/-5
  • The game in my avatar is bit.ly/p0zPWu
    • View Profile
Re: [Controversial] Better Axe Documentation Could Be Needed
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2014, 01:49:03 pm »

Instead of fighting about this, can we just agree that although the current documentation is complete, more could be desired?


For instance, if we compare the axe commands to the android documentation we can see that the android documentation is very thorough to the point that after reading it, you really shouldn't have any questions. (this is the documentation for Camera.open()).


But, if you look at the android documentation, you'll see that it takes more than half of your screen for one command. The purpose of commands.html is to put everything in front of you in a concise way so sometimes the 100% complete explanation isn't given.


Whatever happened to that axe wiki? I feel like that's probably the best place for the kind of information you want. A wiki can be as verbose as you like and can provide the actual 100% explanation.
zStart v1.3.013 9-20-2013 
All of my utilities
TI-Connect Help
You can build a statue out of either 1'x1' blocks or 12'x12' blocks. The 1'x1' blocks will take a lot longer, but the final product is worth it.
       -Runer112

Offline alberthrocks

  • Moderator
  • LV8 Addict (Next: 1000)
  • ********
  • Posts: 876
  • Rating: +103/-10
    • View Profile
Re: [Controversial] Better Axe Documentation Could Be Needed
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2014, 01:50:28 pm »
On the topic of Axe documentation...

We used to have an Axe wiki, where this kind of stuff (tutorials and “better” documentation) can be found. Mediawiki needed to be updated 24/7 though, and things got messy so fast (spambot fiesta!) that it was eventually shut down.

(See: http://www.omnimaga.org/news/axe-parser-wiki-opens-its-doors/msg220368/#msg220368)

I don’t think we’ll ever put up another wiki again (unless it’s some other wiki software, NOT Mediawiki). But if you’re really interested in improving documentation, you can either modify the current one (that one HTML file), or get your hands messy by creating another one!

Sphinx (http://sphinx-doc.org/) is a documentation format that creates pretty documentation from simple markup. LOTS of projects use it, and although it is a little overkill for a project like Axe, you can certainly use it to provide meatier details about Axe, including tutorials and the likes. I’d love to see a https://axe.readthedocs.org/ one day!

EDIT: Looks like thep ninja'd me!
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 01:52:17 pm by alberthrocks »
Withgusto Networks Founder and Administrator
Main Server Status: http://withg.org/status/
Backup Server Status: Not available
Backup 2/MC Server Status: http://mc.withg.org/status/


Proud member of ClrHome!

Miss my old signature? Here it is!
Spoiler For Signature:
Alternate "New" IRC post notification bot (Newy) down? Go here to reset it! http://withg.org/albert/cpuhero/

Withgusto Networks Founder and Administrator
Main Server Status: http://withg.org/status/
Backup Server Status: Not available
Backup 2/MC Server Status: http://mc.withg.org/status/

Activity remains limited due to busyness from school et al. Sorry! :( Feel free to PM, email, or if you know me well enough, FB me if you have a question/concern. :)

Don't expect me to be online 24/7 until summer. Contact me via FB if you feel it's urgent.


Proud member of ClrHome!

Spoiler For "My Projects! :D":
Projects:

Computer/Web/IRC Projects:
C______c: 0% done (Doing planning and trying to not forget it :P)
A_____m: 40% done (Need to develop a sophisticated process queue, and a pretty web GUI)
AtomBot v3.0: 0% done (Planning stage, may do a litmus test of developer wants in the future)
IdeaFrenzy: 0% done (Planning and trying to not forget it :P)
wxWabbitemu: 40% done (NEED MOAR FEATURES :P)

Calculator Projects:
M__ C_____ (an A____ _____ clone): 0% done (Need to figure out physics and Axe)
C2I: 0% done (planning, checking the demand for it, and dreaming :P)

Offline Eeems

  • Mr. Dictator
  • Administrator
  • LV13 Extreme Addict (Next: 9001)
  • *************
  • Posts: 6266
  • Rating: +318/-36
  • little oof
    • View Profile
    • Eeems
Re: [Controversial] Better Axe Documentation Could Be Needed
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2014, 01:57:24 pm »
On the topic of Axe documentation...

We used to have an Axe wiki, where this kind of stuff (tutorials and “better” documentation) can be found. Mediawiki needed to be updated 24/7 though, and things got messy so fast (spambot fiesta!) that it was eventually shut down.

(See: http://www.omnimaga.org/news/axe-parser-wiki-opens-its-doors/msg220368/#msg220368)

I don’t think we’ll ever put up another wiki again (unless it’s some other wiki software, NOT Mediawiki). But if you’re really interested in improving documentation, you can either modify the current one (that one HTML file), or get your hands messy by creating another one!

Sphinx (http://sphinx-doc.org/) is a documentation format that creates pretty documentation from simple markup. LOTS of projects use it, and although it is a little overkill for a project like Axe, you can certainly use it to provide meatier details about Axe, including tutorials and the likes. I’d love to see a https://axe.readthedocs.org/ one day!

EDIT: Looks like thep ninja'd me!
Nothing wrong with mediawiki, you just have to secure it properly. It's what the largest wiki in the world uses after all (Wikipedia).
/e

Offline JWinslow23

  • Coder Of Tomorrow
  • LV7 Elite (Next: 700)
  • *******
  • Posts: 556
  • Rating: +43/-6
  • I make quality calculator games...when I have time
    • View Profile
Re: [Controversial] Better Axe Documentation Could Be Needed
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2014, 02:05:36 pm »

Instead of fighting about this, can we just agree that although the current documentation is complete, more could be desired?


For instance, if we compare the axe commands to the android documentation we can see that the android documentation is very thorough to the point that after reading it, you really shouldn't have any questions. (this is the documentation for Camera.open()).


But, if you look at the android documentation, you'll see that it takes more than half of your screen for one command. The purpose of commands.html is to put everything in front of you in a concise way so sometimes the 100% complete explanation isn't given.


Whatever happened to that axe wiki? I feel like that's probably the best place for the kind of information you want. A wiki can be as verbose as you like and can provide the actual 100% explanation.
+1'd. What happened?
Did you know that "Ammonia Gas" rearranged is "As Omnimaga"?
Click here for the only set of games you'll ever need
= ?

Offline alberthrocks

  • Moderator
  • LV8 Addict (Next: 1000)
  • ********
  • Posts: 876
  • Rating: +103/-10
    • View Profile
Re: [Controversial] Better Axe Documentation Could Be Needed
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2014, 02:13:51 pm »
Nothing wrong with mediawiki, you just have to secure it properly. It's what the largest wiki in the world uses after all (Wikipedia).
Of course Wikipedia uses it - but they monitor their site 24/7 and patch things up quickly. If we install MediaWiki, someone needs to make sure that it's secure, and that updates are installed ASAP. Last time that didn't really happen...

Personally, I'm more of a "set-and-forget" kind of person. Mediawiki is more of a "set-and-maintain" software.
Withgusto Networks Founder and Administrator
Main Server Status: http://withg.org/status/
Backup Server Status: Not available
Backup 2/MC Server Status: http://mc.withg.org/status/


Proud member of ClrHome!

Miss my old signature? Here it is!
Spoiler For Signature:
Alternate "New" IRC post notification bot (Newy) down? Go here to reset it! http://withg.org/albert/cpuhero/

Withgusto Networks Founder and Administrator
Main Server Status: http://withg.org/status/
Backup Server Status: Not available
Backup 2/MC Server Status: http://mc.withg.org/status/

Activity remains limited due to busyness from school et al. Sorry! :( Feel free to PM, email, or if you know me well enough, FB me if you have a question/concern. :)

Don't expect me to be online 24/7 until summer. Contact me via FB if you feel it's urgent.


Proud member of ClrHome!

Spoiler For "My Projects! :D":
Projects:

Computer/Web/IRC Projects:
C______c: 0% done (Doing planning and trying to not forget it :P)
A_____m: 40% done (Need to develop a sophisticated process queue, and a pretty web GUI)
AtomBot v3.0: 0% done (Planning stage, may do a litmus test of developer wants in the future)
IdeaFrenzy: 0% done (Planning and trying to not forget it :P)
wxWabbitemu: 40% done (NEED MOAR FEATURES :P)

Calculator Projects:
M__ C_____ (an A____ _____ clone): 0% done (Need to figure out physics and Axe)
C2I: 0% done (planning, checking the demand for it, and dreaming :P)

Offline Hayleia

  • Programming Absol
  • Coder Of Tomorrow
  • LV12 Extreme Poster (Next: 5000)
  • ************
  • Posts: 3367
  • Rating: +393/-7
    • View Profile
Re: [Controversial] Better Axe Documentation Could Be Needed
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2014, 03:57:37 pm »
Example:
Code: [Select]
Before: EXP▶Hex     Converts the number to hexadecimal and returns the pointer to that string.
Code: [Select]
After: EXP▶[HEX] -> PTR  Converts the expression to hexadecimal and if a pointer is declared it will be available at named pointer.The red is not needed, but if you want the pointer to go somewhere you should provide this information.
I don't agree that this should be written, or at least not by default, because maybe you don't want to store that pointer, maybe you just want to use it once and you'll just write for example Text(0,,18▶Hex), so your "→Ptr" appears nowhere.
However, something that could be done (but probably annoying to do) is a button next to each command that expands a box showing examples about how to use that command or more information or whatever. But I still think that the current presentation is fine, with only one concise line about what it takes and what it returns showed by default, hence why I'd say there should be that button (a bit like with spoilers on forums in fact).
I own: 83+ ; 84+SE ; 76.fr ; CX CAS ; Prizm ; 84+CSE
Sorry if I answer with something that seems unrelated, English is not my primary language and I might not have understood well. Sorry if I make English mistakes too.

click here to know where you got your last +1s

Offline DJ Omnimaga

  • Clacualters are teh gr33t
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV15 Omnimagician (Next: --)
  • *
  • Posts: 55943
  • Rating: +3154/-232
  • CodeWalrus founder & retired Omnimaga founder
    • View Profile
    • Dream of Omnimaga Music
Re: [Controversial] Better Axe Documentation Could Be Needed
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2014, 12:15:40 pm »
Also I think Axe wiki was hosted on Juju server, so after too much downtime and spam it was pretty much forgotten, along with the original PrizmWiki.

Offline josh landers

  • LV4 Regular (Next: 200)
  • ****
  • Posts: 116
  • Rating: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: [Controversial] Better Axe Documentation Could Be Needed
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2014, 12:36:12 pm »
Example:
Code: [Select]
Before: EXP▶Hex     Converts the number to hexadecimal and returns the pointer to that string.
Code: [Select]
After: EXP▶[HEX] -> PTR  Converts the expression to hexadecimal and if a pointer is declared it will be available at named pointer.The red is not needed, but if you want the pointer to go somewhere you should provide this information.
You know you start modifying the documentation with stuff like that and then submit it to Runer112 to include in the official releases.
I would love too! But one problem, I cant just jump into that and expect no errors, I myself dont know all the possible formats ect but i will take a shot at it!

Edit: somithing happend and I didnt see all the posts... thanks for all the input!

On the topic of Axe documentation...

We used to have an Axe wiki, where this kind of stuff (tutorials and “better” documentation) can be found. Mediawiki needed to be updated 24/7 though, and things got messy so fast (spambot fiesta!) that it was eventually shut down.

(See: http://www.omnimaga.org/news/axe-parser-wiki-opens-its-doors/msg220368/#msg220368)

I don’t think we’ll ever put up another wiki again (unless it’s some other wiki software, NOT Mediawiki). But if you’re really interested in improving documentation, you can either modify the current one (that one HTML file), or get your hands messy by creating another one!

Sphinx (http://sphinx-doc.org/) is a documentation format that creates pretty documentation from simple markup. LOTS of projects use it, and although it is a little overkill for a project like Axe, you can certainly use it to provide meatier details about Axe, including tutorials and the likes. I’d love to see a https://axe.readthedocs.org/ one day!

EDIT: Looks like thep ninja'd me!
Nothing wrong with mediawiki, you just have to secure it properly. It's what the largest wiki in the world uses after all (Wikipedia).
I shall take a look
And

Example:
Code: [Select]
Before: EXP▶Hex     Converts the number to hexadecimal and returns the pointer to that string.
Code: [Select]
After: EXP▶[HEX] -> PTR  Converts the expression to hexadecimal and if a pointer is declared it will be available at named pointer.The red is not needed, but if you want the pointer to go somewhere you should provide this information.
I don't agree that this should be written, or at least not by default, because maybe you don't want to store that pointer, maybe you just want to use it once and you'll just write for example Text(0,,18▶Hex), so your "→Ptr" appears nowhere.
However, something that could be done (but probably annoying to do) is a button next to each command that expands a box showing examples about how to use that command or more information or whatever. But I still think that the current presentation is fine, with only one concise line about what it takes and what it returns showed by default, hence why I'd say there should be that button (a bit like with spoilers on forums in fact).
The  -> ptr was suppose to be red but that didnt happen... sorry it makes more sence if it was red though.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 06:41:29 pm by josh landers »

Offline josh landers

  • LV4 Regular (Next: 200)
  • ****
  • Posts: 116
  • Rating: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: [Controversial] Better Axe Documentation Could Be Needed
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2014, 12:55:48 am »
Possibly the solution?

An Axe Parser textbook.
It will have a section on all the parts of Axe Documentation, from commands to reqierments. I will be wotking on this shortly but in the meantime I shall share my outline with the community.

(1)  An Introduction to Axe Parser
     I. History of Axe 
     II. Releases and Major Improvements
     III. Requirements for Learning Axe Language
(2)  Axe Parser from an inside perspective
     I. How TI-OS handles Axe Source
     II. What can one create in Axe
     III. Math and Numerical Systems
     IV. Compiled Axe Source
(3)  Axe Parser Commands
     I. Syntax
     II. The Rules of Axe
     III.  Commands for Version 1.2.2
(4)  Advanced Features of Axe
     I. Optimizations
     II. ASM( )
     III. Axioms
(5) Troubles with Axe Parser
      I. Frequently Asked Routines
     II. Problems and Solutions
(Index)
(Credits)
(Resources)

Just let me know if any part needs explanation and I will try and explain.

This Textbook will be free and I plan on it being around 250-270 pages.
It will have examples and such but will not be a go-to guide. All of the information that I will put in it will coe from this site and the documentation for axe that is used presently in the zip file.
Why am I doing this? Because I feel like the current docs dont supply enough information to have axe parser ready to fly out of the boxn I had to spend three solud months of trial and error doing simple tasks.
If anyone wants to DIRECTLY involve themselves in this textbook or would like to help with translation to other languages please PM me.

Offline TIfanx1999

  • ಠ_ಠ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV13 Extreme Addict (Next: 9001)
  • *
  • Posts: 6173
  • Rating: +191/-9
    • View Profile
Re: [Controversial] Better Axe Documentation Could Be Needed
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2014, 01:21:26 am »
My personal opinion: If it's that long, no one will read it. Ever. I think that's a bit much. Honestly, if the wiki were maintained again I think that would be the best solution. It would also allow multiple people to add content, so the burden isn't on just one person.

Another good idea would be to bring the tutorial section back here, or at least have a stickied topic that lists (and links to) all tuorials.

Offline josh landers

  • LV4 Regular (Next: 200)
  • ****
  • Posts: 116
  • Rating: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: [Controversial] Better Axe Documentation Could Be Needed
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2014, 01:25:05 am »
Thats just my estimate because if a 1 page per command but some commands come in groups of three or two so it will be lighter then that. Its just a way of saying heads up its gonna take some time for me to do. Sorry if that sounded scary large.

Offline Streetwalrus

  • LV12 Extreme Poster (Next: 5000)
  • ************
  • Posts: 3821
  • Rating: +80/-8
    • View Profile
Re: [Controversial] Better Axe Documentation Could Be Needed
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2014, 02:10:35 am »
I agree that the tutorial that comes with Axe need to be updated and that we need more details about commands for beginners as well as advanced tricks. I'll consider setting up a wiki. Not Media Wiki though.

Offline DJ Omnimaga

  • Clacualters are teh gr33t
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV15 Omnimagician (Next: --)
  • *
  • Posts: 55943
  • Rating: +3154/-232
  • CodeWalrus founder & retired Omnimaga founder
    • View Profile
    • Dream of Omnimaga Music
Re: [Controversial] Better Axe Documentation Could Be Needed
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2014, 02:23:26 am »
It would be better if the wiki was hosted on Omni server, though, or maybe soru's, since those seems likely to be around in a few years. Otherwise, we never know when the wiki will go down again.

Btw, are there any backups of the old Axe wiki?

Offline Streetwalrus

  • LV12 Extreme Poster (Next: 5000)
  • ************
  • Posts: 3821
  • Rating: +80/-8
    • View Profile
Re: [Controversial] Better Axe Documentation Could Be Needed
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2014, 12:42:17 pm »
Well yeah. If it's on Omni I think Omni admins will manage it but if Soru hosts it and he doesn't want to bother with administration I'm volunteer.