Author Topic: Low level hardware emulation  (Read 14187 times)

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Offline jnesselr

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Re: Low level hardware emulation
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2011, 11:58:52 am »
There is no way that took 15 minutes to render.  There's just... What the heck.  Okay, so is this the OS or hardwares' fault?  That's actually on the calc, right?  Could you show a video of that.  Maybe put a camera over it, and host a livestream or something? *shrugs*
It's the OS, no doubt about it. Drawing something like this in asm is probably about as fast as on an 8x calc.
Wow. So, CKOS or what?

EDIT: IE: Casio-Knight OS or what?
What do you mean?
lol, KOS for Casio calcs.  As in a new OS instead of the one that comes with the calc.

Offline JosJuice

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Re: Low level hardware emulation
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2011, 12:05:53 pm »
There is no way that took 15 minutes to render.  There's just... What the heck.  Okay, so is this the OS or hardwares' fault?  That's actually on the calc, right?  Could you show a video of that.  Maybe put a camera over it, and host a livestream or something? *shrugs*
It's the OS, no doubt about it. Drawing something like this in asm is probably about as fast as on an 8x calc.
Wow. So, CKOS or what?

EDIT: IE: Casio-Knight OS or what?
What do you mean?
lol, KOS for Casio calcs.  As in a new OS instead of the one that comes with the calc.
It would probably take a very long time until it becomes possible to make a third-party OS.

Offline calc84maniac

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Re: Low level hardware emulation
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2011, 12:52:52 pm »
There is no way that took 15 minutes to render.  There's just... What the heck.  Okay, so is this the OS or hardwares' fault?  That's actually on the calc, right?  Could you show a video of that.  Maybe put a camera over it, and host a livestream or something? *shrugs*
It's the OS, no doubt about it. Drawing something like this in asm is probably about as fast as on an 8x calc.
Wow. So, CKOS or what?

EDIT: IE: Casio-Knight OS or what?
What do you mean?
lol, KOS for Casio calcs.  As in a new OS instead of the one that comes with the calc.
It would probably take a very long time until it becomes possible to make a third-party OS.
When we blame the OS, we really mean the Basic language. It's definitely possible to do faster stuff without a whole new OS, as we saw on the TI-83+.
"Most people ask, 'What does a thing do?' Hackers ask, 'What can I make it do?'" - Pablos Holman

Offline JosJuice

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Re: Low level hardware emulation
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2011, 12:55:41 pm »
There is no way that took 15 minutes to render.  There's just... What the heck.  Okay, so is this the OS or hardwares' fault?  That's actually on the calc, right?  Could you show a video of that.  Maybe put a camera over it, and host a livestream or something? *shrugs*
It's the OS, no doubt about it. Drawing something like this in asm is probably about as fast as on an 8x calc.
Wow. So, CKOS or what?

EDIT: IE: Casio-Knight OS or what?
What do you mean?
lol, KOS for Casio calcs.  As in a new OS instead of the one that comes with the calc.
It would probably take a very long time until it becomes possible to make a third-party OS.
When we blame the OS, we really mean the Basic language. It's definitely possible to do faster stuff without a whole new OS, as we saw on the TI-83+.
The slowdown is part of the OS since the BASIC language is part of the OS, but just like you said, it's possible to fix it without a new OS - but it's still the OS's fault that drawing is slow.

also: I like quote pyramids.

Offline jnesselr

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Re: Low level hardware emulation
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2011, 01:15:22 pm »
There is no way that took 15 minutes to render.  There's just... What the heck.  Okay, so is this the OS or hardwares' fault?  That's actually on the calc, right?  Could you show a video of that.  Maybe put a camera over it, and host a livestream or something? *shrugs*
It's the OS, no doubt about it. Drawing something like this in asm is probably about as fast as on an 8x calc.
Wow. So, CKOS or what?

EDIT: IE: Casio-Knight OS or what?
What do you mean?
lol, KOS for Casio calcs.  As in a new OS instead of the one that comes with the calc.
It would probably take a very long time until it becomes possible to make a third-party OS.
When we blame the OS, we really mean the Basic language. It's definitely possible to do faster stuff without a whole new OS, as we saw on the TI-83+.
The slowdown is part of the OS since the BASIC language is part of the OS, but just like you said, it's possible to fix it without a new OS - but it's still the OS's fault that drawing is slow.

also: I like quote pyramids.
Yeah, they are kinda fun aren't they.  So, we need either AXE or KOS for prizm calcs now.

Offline JosJuice

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Re: Low level hardware emulation
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2011, 01:19:22 pm »
There is no way that took 15 minutes to render.  There's just... What the heck.  Okay, so is this the OS or hardwares' fault?  That's actually on the calc, right?  Could you show a video of that.  Maybe put a camera over it, and host a livestream or something? *shrugs*
It's the OS, no doubt about it. Drawing something like this in asm is probably about as fast as on an 8x calc.
Wow. So, CKOS or what?

EDIT: IE: Casio-Knight OS or what?
What do you mean?
lol, KOS for Casio calcs.  As in a new OS instead of the one that comes with the calc.
It would probably take a very long time until it becomes possible to make a third-party OS.
When we blame the OS, we really mean the Basic language. It's definitely possible to do faster stuff without a whole new OS, as we saw on the TI-83+.
The slowdown is part of the OS since the BASIC language is part of the OS, but just like you said, it's possible to fix it without a new OS - but it's still the OS's fault that drawing is slow.

also: I like quote pyramids.
Yeah, they are kinda fun aren't they.  So, we need either AXE or KOS for prizm calcs now.
And maybe PrizmSuite too? ;D

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Re: Low level hardware emulation
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2011, 01:42:34 pm »
I say the first thing is just to complete the calc's documentation.  It's quite possible that we could gems embedded in the OS that could aid us, or inhibit us.

I have no idea what the status is on this -- but that fact that we can't really use and compile a C program for it yet shows more work must be done.

Offline Jim Bauwens

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Re: Low level hardware emulation
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2011, 02:17:21 pm »
I didn't know that casio-basic was so slow....
Since I do not know much about Casio calculators, I have a little question: can you run assembly on the prism?
This might be a stupid question, and I probably can google it, but for some reason its fun to ask :)

Offline JosJuice

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Re: Low level hardware emulation
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2011, 02:24:11 pm »
Since I do not know much about Casio calculators, I have a little question: can you run assembly on the prism?
Yes, but Casio has not released an SDK, so we're still exploring what's possible to do. Running assembly code has been possible since January this year.

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Low level hardware emulation
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2011, 02:33:34 pm »
There is no way that took 15 minutes to render.  There's just... What the heck.  Okay, so is this the OS or hardwares' fault?  That's actually on the calc, right?  Could you show a video of that.  Maybe put a camera over it, and host a livestream or something? *shrugs*
It's the OS, no doubt about it. Drawing something like this in asm is probably about as fast as on an 8x calc.
Wow. So, CKOS or what?

EDIT: IE: Casio-Knight OS or what?

I think something else would have to be used, because it would cause confusion between CasioKingdom website/forums and KnightOS.

And I'm sure the calc can draw stuff fast enough. I hope it's faster than in the Insight demo, though, otherwise if we can only get 30-60 FPS with 20 moving squares then I bet we'll be limited in graphic intensive games.

Offline jnesselr

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Re: Low level hardware emulation
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2011, 02:37:35 pm »
There is no way that took 15 minutes to render.  There's just... What the heck.  Okay, so is this the OS or hardwares' fault?  That's actually on the calc, right?  Could you show a video of that.  Maybe put a camera over it, and host a livestream or something? *shrugs*
It's the OS, no doubt about it. Drawing something like this in asm is probably about as fast as on an 8x calc.
Wow. So, CKOS or what?

EDIT: IE: Casio-Knight OS or what?
What do you mean?
lol, KOS for Casio calcs.  As in a new OS instead of the one that comes with the calc.
It would probably take a very long time until it becomes possible to make a third-party OS.
When we blame the OS, we really mean the Basic language. It's definitely possible to do faster stuff without a whole new OS, as we saw on the TI-83+.
The slowdown is part of the OS since the BASIC language is part of the OS, but just like you said, it's possible to fix it without a new OS - but it's still the OS's fault that drawing is slow.

also: I like quote pyramids.
Yeah, they are kinda fun aren't they.  So, we need either AXE or KOS for prizm calcs now.
And maybe PrizmSuite too? ;D
Err.. Working on a temporary assembler for Qwerty.55 before I can work on that.  And that reminds me.  Can anyone please explain how instructions that branch work.  I'm interested in calculating the displacements.  Qwerty.55 gave me some test code, but I still can't figure out how many bytes back stuff should be.  For example, what looks like it should be -6 bytes back is -4, or -5, or stuff like that.

Offline JosJuice

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Re: Low level hardware emulation
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2011, 02:44:59 pm »
There is no way that took 15 minutes to render.  There's just... What the heck.  Okay, so is this the OS or hardwares' fault?  That's actually on the calc, right?  Could you show a video of that.  Maybe put a camera over it, and host a livestream or something? *shrugs*
It's the OS, no doubt about it. Drawing something like this in asm is probably about as fast as on an 8x calc.
Wow. So, CKOS or what?

EDIT: IE: Casio-Knight OS or what?
What do you mean?
lol, KOS for Casio calcs.  As in a new OS instead of the one that comes with the calc.
It would probably take a very long time until it becomes possible to make a third-party OS.
When we blame the OS, we really mean the Basic language. It's definitely possible to do faster stuff without a whole new OS, as we saw on the TI-83+.
The slowdown is part of the OS since the BASIC language is part of the OS, but just like you said, it's possible to fix it without a new OS - but it's still the OS's fault that drawing is slow.

also: I like quote pyramids.
Yeah, they are kinda fun aren't they.  So, we need either AXE or KOS for prizm calcs now.
And maybe PrizmSuite too? ;D
Err.. Working on a temporary assembler for Qwerty.55 before I can work on that.  And that reminds me.  Can anyone please explain how instructions that branch work.  I'm interested in calculating the displacements.  Qwerty.55 gave me some test code, but I still can't figure out how many bytes back stuff should be.  For example, what looks like it should be -6 bytes back is -4, or -5, or stuff like that.
I don't know much about the SH3, but try using PC+2 (or PC-2?) instead of PC when calculating stuff.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 02:45:21 pm by JosJuice »

Offline AngelFish

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Re: Low level hardware emulation
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2011, 04:47:14 pm »
There is no way that took 15 minutes to render.  There's just... What the heck.  Okay, so is this the OS or hardwares' fault?  That's actually on the calc, right?  Could you show a video of that.  Maybe put a camera over it, and host a livestream or something? *shrugs*
It's the OS, no doubt about it. Drawing something like this in asm is probably about as fast as on an 8x calc.

Actually, drawing something like this could probably be done *faster* than an 8x calc. But yeah, that was a simple pixel based loop to draw those lines. It might have been a bit less than 15 minutes though. I went off and wrote a good portion of a paper in the time it took to finish. Here's the program:

Code: [Select]
ClrGraph
AxesOff
0→C
For 4→E To 6
For 1→A To 2^E
For 1→B To 2^E
Blue PxlOn A,B+C
Next
Next
2^E+10+C→C
Next

I have no idea what the status is on this -- but that fact that we can't really use and compile a C program for it yet shows more work must be done.

You can indeed compile C for it.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 04:49:57 pm by Qwerty.55 »
∂²Ψ    -(2m(V(x)-E)Ψ
---  = -------------
∂x²        ℏ²Ψ

Offline calc84maniac

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Re: Low level hardware emulation
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2011, 05:08:57 pm »
I wonder if it's recalculating 2^E each loop iteration?
"Most people ask, 'What does a thing do?' Hackers ask, 'What can I make it do?'" - Pablos Holman

Offline JosJuice

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Re: Low level hardware emulation
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2011, 05:10:10 pm »
Isn't there a line or rectangle drawing command?