Author Topic: #Prizm: A Prizm discussion group (Read 10940 times)

qazz42 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 06, 2011, 07:29:11 pm »

I should get my hands on a Prizm before or during Summer

I am struggling between a Prizm or a eChronos ><

jnesselr · « **Reply #16 on:** March 06, 2011, 07:31:56 pm »

For the record, I don't have a prizm, because I'm saving for an ubercalc, but I still can hack, do usb stuff and program on the computer.

AngelFish · « **Reply #17 on:** March 06, 2011, 10:34:04 pm »

Um, thanks for the nice comments about myself, but I don't think the ownership of the chan is really that important of an issue. Bots just provide certain functions and limited moderation. The identity of their owners isn't really important as long as they don't abuse the channel.

yunhua98 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 06, 2011, 10:48:26 pm »

Quote from: Qwerty.55 on March 06, 2011, 10:34:04 pm

Um, thanks for the nice comments about myself, but I don't think the ownership of the chan is really that important of an issue. Bots just provide certain functions and limited moderation. The identity of their owners isn't really important as long as they don't abuse the channel.

agreed, however, I believe this issue has been resolved.

DJ Omnimaga · « **Reply #19 on:** March 06, 2011, 10:50:53 pm »

I like the channel idea, kinda like the #inspired channel. Since both sites deal with Casio Prizm hacking, it would be nice that certain of the hackers, such as Qwerty and Kerm, gets ops, since they would most likely be the most active ones in Prizm development so they would be around a lot to deal with problems, if any.

One thing I would suggest, though, is to not drive the entire Prizm hacking discussion away from both sites, though. It would be nice if updates were still posted on them, such as Prizm SDK releases. Some people might not want to read all logs either, if any. And we can also plug some updates in the two big channels as well. Another idea could be to setup saxjax and Spybot45 to relay new posts from the respective sites' Casio Prizm hacking sub-forums (assuming one is added on Cemetech, otherwise, Technology/projects maybe) as well, since some people do not use IRC.

alberthrocks · « **Reply #20 on:** March 07, 2011, 04:04:01 pm »

If you are in a tl;dr state, don't read this at all. My explanation should be read in full, although you can skim the IRC logs as necessary. If you skim my explanation though, the end result is going to be misunderstanding. Find some other time that you can allot, and then read this.

Finally, this is one of those "blind" posts - I haven't looked at any replies - just taken what I know and putting it into this post. Therefore, this post may seem out of context.

Spoiler For "Hidden because it's seriously big. Probably the biggest text-only post here. Only open when you're ready to read.":

Before I begin, let me start by saying I apologize if I've insulted anyone. If you know me, you'd know me as a happy go lucky person. If you know me more personally, you'd know that I'm sometimes upset, but usually happy. If you really knew me, you'd know I'm not in a very good mood - ever. Sure, I might toss thousands of happy faces all over my posts, but like many literary works, the happy masks the darker side of things. The reasons of my unhappiness is too personal to go into, and that's saved only to real life people, and occasionally online people. That dark side won't go away unless a godsend happens, which I still wait for patiently. Miracles do happen - you just have to be patient.

Now with a (hopefully/somewhat) cool head, let's begin the post.
As I've said above, I apologize to anyone I've insulted. However, I will not apologize to KermM... yet. I still believe my POV is correct, and if you guys could read it with a neutral view, I would greatly appreciate it. I don't attack people unless there is a wrong that I see, and even so, I usually keep my mouth shut unless it has really pissed me off. Obviously, this was one of those times. If it is found that I am in the wrong, I misassumed, etc., I will apologize.

So, here goes the explanation. Before you begin, clear yourselves of any prejudice, past, and knowledge of the people involved, including me. Ignore my good side or bad side, and others as well. Once you are POSITIVE that you have done that, continue reading. Otherwise, don't until you are 100% neutral.

I will be quoting from my IRC logs while explaining.

So how did this get started? Fishbot (Qwerty) started the chan and announced it in #omnimaga:

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Mar 06 15:45:59 <Pearfish>	Graph, please join #prizm on EFnet.
Mar 06 15:46:10 <SirCmpwn>	back
Mar 06 15:46:11 *	Netham46 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
Mar 06 15:46:17 <alberthro>	ohh, I wanna join :P
Mar 06 15:46:24 <Pearfish>	Okay, go ahead.
Mar 06 15:46:24 *	Netham46 ([email protected]) has joined #omnimaga
Mar 06 15:46:24 *	Netbot45 gives channel operator status to Netham46
Mar 06 15:46:25 <Netbot45>	[Netham46] Narf!
Mar 06 15:47:19 *	Pearfish is now known as Fishbot
Mar 06 15:47:23 *	Banana is now known as JosJuice

I've left the other parts so that you can see that Pearfish = Fishbot.

So, I've joined #prizm:

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Mar 06 15:46:20 *	Now talking on #prizm
Mar 06 15:46:51 *	Souvik ([email protected]) has joined #prizm
Mar 06 15:46:54 *	grphmstur ([email protected]) has joined #prizm
Mar 06 15:46:58 *	Banana ([email protected]) has joined #prizm
Mar 06 15:47:00 <Pearfish>	Hey everyone.
Mar 06 15:47:03 <Souvik>	hi
Mar 06 15:47:03 <Banana>	Hi
Mar 06 15:47:05 <alberthro>	hi
Mar 06 15:47:05 <grphmstur>	hi
Mar 06 15:47:10 <grphmstur>	!op
Mar 06 15:47:12 <alberthro>	4 his :D
Mar 06 15:47:13 <grphmstur>	no bots
Mar 06 15:47:16 *	KermM_ ([email protected]) has joined #prizm
Mar 06 15:47:19 *	Pearfish is now known as Fishbot
Mar 06 15:47:20 <grphmstur>	okay, so discussion?
Mar 06 15:47:22 <KermM_>	Hi cool peeps
Mar 06 15:47:23 *	Banana is now known as JosJuice
Mar 06 15:47:29 <Fishbot>	Yeah, about the Prizm/CX thing.

After a little bit... Melisma appeared.

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Mar 06 15:47:45 <Fishbot>	Thanks.
Mar 06 15:47:52 <Fishbot>	Let's face it, though.
Mar 06 15:48:00 *	Netham45 ([email protected]) has joined #prizm
Mar 06 15:48:04 <Fishbot>	While TI should be more supportive of the community, they aren't.
Mar 06 15:48:08 *	Melisma ([email protected]) has joined #prizm
Mar 06 15:48:15 <JosJuice>	Melisma? D:
Mar 06 15:48:17 <KermM_>	Fishbot, agreed
Mar 06 15:48:17 <grphmstur>	bot

After a bit, I brought my bot, MrAtom, into the chan.

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Mar 06 15:48:22 <Fishbot>	But Casio also isn't going to get the widespread distribution of TI.
Mar 06 15:48:22 *	Merth ([email protected]) has joined #prizm
Mar 06 15:48:23 *	MrAtom ([email protected]) has joined #prizm
Mar 06 15:48:25 <grphmstur>	Fishbot, agreed
Mar 06 15:48:31 <grphmstur>	this is true KermM_
Mar 06 15:48:33 <alberthro>	We need serious promotion.
Mar 06 15:48:40 <grphmstur>	okay, this isn't a bot place alberthro
Mar 06 15:48:43 <grphmstur>	#thebot is.
Mar 06 15:48:45 <Fishbot>	Even that won't be enough.
Mar 06 15:48:47 <alberthro>	Melisma is a bot :P
Mar 06 15:48:57 <grphmstur>	I know, but we don't need MrAtom
Mar 06 15:48:57 <KermM_>	Melisma is a channel reservation bot :P
Mar 06 15:49:01 <Fishbot>	I think we need interoperability.
Mar 06 15:49:05 <grphmstur>	I see KermM_
Mar 06 15:49:10 *	Juju ([email protected]) has joined #prizm
Mar 06 15:49:10 <alberthro>	KermM_: mine is too :P
Mar 06 15:49:14 <KermM_>	Fishbot, therefore, we need to tell TI we're pissed, and teachers that TI is failing us
Mar 06 15:49:16 <grphmstur>	well, fishbot's the only one opped here, so Fishbot, op Melisma
Mar 06 15:49:23 <grphmstur>	agreed KermM_
Mar 06 15:49:24 <alberthro>	...and MrAtom :P
Mar 06 15:49:26 <Fishbot>	!op Melisma
Mar 06 15:49:26 <Juju>	lol
Mar 06 15:49:34 <Fishbot>	Can't :p
Mar 06 15:49:35 <JosJuice>	no, Fishbot :P
Mar 06 15:49:37 <grphmstur>	but for the most part, TI has no interest in us.
Mar 06 15:49:38 <KermM_>	Fishbot, you can't !op when you're the only op :P
Mar 06 15:49:39 <Netham45>	Fishbot, you have to do /mode #prizm +o Melisma 
Mar 06 15:49:43 <Souvik>	do /op
Mar 06 15:49:47 <alberthro>	Anyway, we have to define our focus.
Mar 06 15:49:49 *	Fishbot gives channel operator status to Melisma
Mar 06 15:49:54 *	Melisma sets mode +s #prizm
Mar 06 15:49:54 <KermM_>	thanks Fishbot
Mar 06 15:49:59 *	Fishbot gives channel operator status to MrAtom
Mar 06 15:50:01 <grphmstur>	wait, does Melisma always secret rooms?
Mar 06 15:50:03 <grphmstur>	!op
Mar 06 15:50:09 <Netham45>	It's a good idea to secret them
Mar 06 15:50:13 <Netham45>	efnet gets alot of spambots

After a bit of discussion, both bots were accepted.

The actual CX vs. Prizm discussion ensued, with quite a few ideas tossed around. Afterwards, KermM_ and JosJuice left the discussion:

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Mar 06 16:07:40 <KermM_>	Anyway, I need to get back to work on my homework
Mar 06 16:07:40 <grphmstur>	awesome.
Mar 06 16:07:44 <grphmstur>	cya KermM_
Mar 06 16:07:48 <Fishbot>	Bye KermM_
Mar 06 16:07:55 <Souvik>	cya KermM_ 
Mar 06 16:07:59 <Netham45>	c-c-c-combo breaker
Mar 06 16:08:03 <KermM_>	I hope you guys will copy out the gist of your thoughts in the Cemetech CX/Prizm topic :)
Mar 06 16:08:14 <Fishbot>	graph, I think we need to get Casio behind us.
Mar 06 16:08:18 <Fishbot>	Sure Kerm.
Mar 06 16:08:19 <JosJuice>	I'm going to bed now. Be back tomorrow GMT
Mar 06 16:08:21 *	JosJuice ([email protected]) has left #prizm

After a bit, I asked Fishbot/Qwerty for permission to become op, and added a topic to the chan:

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Mar 06 16:12:14 <alberthro>	Fishbot: can I do something really quick? :)
Mar 06 16:12:21 <Fishbot>	Sure.
Mar 06 16:12:24 <alberthro>	?op
Mar 06 16:12:25 *	MrAtom gives channel operator status to alberthro
Mar 06 16:12:27 *	alberthro has changed the topic to: #prizm | PRIZM discussion occurs here! :)
Mar 06 16:12:33 <alberthro>	?deop
Mar 06 16:12:34 *	MrAtom removes channel operator status from alberthro
Mar 06 16:12:39 <alberthro>	I hate being op :P
Mar 06 16:12:44 <Fishbot>	It's a chan now?
Mar 06 16:12:53 <alberthro>	well, might as well be :)
Mar 06 16:13:10 <alberthro>	Most discussion will probably happen in #omnimaga tho
Mar 06 16:13:16 <Fishbot>	Yeah.
Mar 06 16:13:23 <Fishbot>	But it's good for meetings and stuff.
Mar 06 16:14:15 <Fishbot>	Thanks alberthro
Mar 06 16:14:21 <alberthro>	np :)
Mar 06 16:14:39 <alberthro>	(even tho I have no idea what I'm thanked for :P)
Mar 06 16:14:47 <Fishbot>	:p

Fishbot then asked how to change the topic:

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Mar 06 16:15:09 <Fishbot>	How do I change the topic?
Mar 06 16:15:13 <qazz42>	ohai
Mar 06 16:15:18 <grphmstur>	"/topic"
Mar 06 16:15:18 <Fishbot>	Hi
Mar 06 16:15:25 <alberthro>	"/topic topic"
Mar 06 16:15:34 *	Fishbot has changed the topic to: Fishbot rulz
Mar 06 16:15:39 <Fishbot>	:p
Mar 06 16:15:41 <alberthro>	lol :P
Mar 06 16:15:52 <qazz42>	!topic Casio > TI
Mar 06 16:15:56 *	qazz42 has changed the topic to: Casio > TI
Mar 06 16:16:05 *	grphmstur has changed the topic to: "#prizm | PRIZM discussion occurs here! ;-)"
Mar 06 16:16:06 <alberthro>	how in the world? :P
Mar 06 16:16:08 <qazz42>	heheheh
Mar 06 16:16:11 <KermM_>	!t Prizm | Discussing the Casio Prizm | See also http://www.cemetech.net/news.php?id=443
Mar 06 16:16:16 *	Fishbot has changed the topic to: Discussion of Prizm hacking, cracking, and random stuff.
Mar 06 16:16:16 <grphmstur>	err.
Mar 06 16:16:23 <KermM_>	dammit melisma
Mar 06 16:16:24 <Fishbot>	Okay, enough topic spam.[/quote]
This is where I got slightly concerned - why was a Cemetech link here? The discussion has nothing to do with Cemetech. I looked at the link tho, and saw that it was about the open letter to TI. With that, I safely disregarded it.

Some others messing with bots:
[code]Mar 06 16:17:59 <Fishbot>	Okay, enough bots.
Mar 06 16:18:06 <qazz42>	just to be sure
Mar 06 16:18:07 *	grphmstur turns on his server....
Mar 06 16:18:08 <alberthro>	lol :P
Mar 06 16:18:10 <qazz42>	$roulette
Mar 06 16:18:10 <qazzbot>	qazz42: *click*
Mar 06 16:18:19 *	Melisma gives voice to KermM_
Mar 06 16:18:20 <grphmstur>	okay, kick all bots.
Mar 06 16:18:20 <qazz42>	hmm, I forgot about that :D
Mar 06 16:18:24 <grphmstur>	except melisma
Mar 06 16:18:29 <Fishbot>	!voiceall
Mar 06 16:18:30 <grphmstur>	do it in #thebot, not here.
Mar 06 16:18:32 <alberthro>	if it's to keep the chan alive, that's ok. But bot spam goes to #thebot, not here. :)
Mar 06 16:18:32 <qazz42>	$part
Mar 06 16:18:32 *	qazzbot ([email protected]) has left #prizm (qazz42)
Mar 06 16:18:36 <grphmstur>	I'm about to start kicking.
Mar 06 16:18:39 <KermM_>	!t Prizm | Discussing the Casio Prizm | See also http://www.cemetech.net/news.php?id=443
Mar 06 16:18:41 <grphmstur>	thank you alberhtro
Mar 06 16:18:47 <qazz42>	Errr, wha?
Mar 06 16:18:48 <KermM_>	grr, I thought I got the flags right.
Mar 06 16:18:48 <grphmstur>	KermM_: I've already changed the topic
Mar 06 16:18:53 <qazz42>	sooo
Mar 06 16:18:56 <KermM_>	grphmstur, I just want to make sure we can all to !t
Mar 06 16:19:03 <grphmstur>	okay...
Mar 06 16:19:08 <grphmstur>	anyway.
Mar 06 16:19:10 <grphmstur>	back on topic.

I got a little more concerned, seeing that KermM gave voice to himself, and still trying to set the topic... even after it was set.

After a bit, I cycled my IRC connection, due to some minor issues with the internet:

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Mar 06 16:25:07 <alberthro>	cycling Xchat, brb
Mar 06 16:25:08 <grphmstur>	anyway, back on what was a topic.
Mar 06 16:25:10 *	Disconnected ().
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Mar  6 16:25:10 2011

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar  6 16:25:26 2011

Mar 06 16:25:26 *	Now talking on #prizm
Mar 06 16:25:26 *	Topic for #prizm is: Prizm | Discussing the Casio Prizm | See also http://www.cemetech.net/news.php?id=443
Mar 06 16:25:26 *	Topic for #prizm set by [email protected] at Sun Mar  6 16:16:37 2011
Mar 06 16:25:27 *	MrAtom gives channel operator status to alberthro

After a quick cycle, bot control was needed, and so I added that in for Fishbot:

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Mar 06 16:25:28 <uTanner>	Discussing the Casio Prizm
Mar 06 16:25:28 <grphmstur>	okay, when alberthro gets back, just kick him.
Mar 06 16:25:29 <grphmstur>	gah
Mar 06 16:25:36 <alberthro>	:P
Mar 06 16:25:37 <uTanner>	Let's do that :)
Mar 06 16:25:49 <grphmstur>	I actually waited until he got back on, but whatevs.
Mar 06 16:25:55 <Fishbot>	?deop alberthro
Mar 06 16:26:04 <alberthro>	oh, I'm an op again :D
Mar 06 16:26:04 <grphmstur>	doesn't work that way.
Mar 06 16:26:05 <Fishbot>	?op
Mar 06 16:26:09 <alberthro>	?deop alberthro
Mar 06 16:26:10 *	MrAtom removes channel operator status from alberthro
Mar 06 16:26:21 *	grphmstur gives channel operator status to alberthro
Mar 06 16:26:24 <Fishbot>	?deop alberthro
Mar 06 16:26:27 <alberthro>	Fishbot: you need bot admin privs. can get that to you in a sec :)
Mar 06 16:26:28 *	grphmstur removes channel operator status from alberthro
Mar 06 16:26:34 <alberthro>	grphmstur: :P
Mar 06 16:26:36 <Fishbot>	Thanks :)
Mar 06 16:26:40 <grphmstur>	?op Fishbot
Mar 06 16:26:40 *	MrAtom gives channel operator status to Fishbot
Mar 06 16:26:46 <grphmstur>	close enough atm.
Mar 06 16:26:55 <grphmstur>	even though you were already op...
Mar 06 16:27:03 <Fishbot>	?deop grphmstur
Mar 06 16:27:04 <alberthro>	who else wants bot control? :P
Mar 06 16:27:08 <Fishbot>	>.<
Mar 06 16:27:14 <Fishbot>	:p
Mar 06 16:27:18 <grphmstur>	nic try Fishbot
Mar 06 16:27:18 *	MrAtom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
Mar 06 16:27:23 <grphmstur>	he has to reset it.
Mar 06 16:27:30 <Fishbot>	O.o
Mar 06 16:27:38 *	Fishbot will be victorious.

After adding, he was able to be opped by my bot:

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Mar 06 16:29:48 <Fishbot>	?op
Mar 06 16:29:57 *	MrAtom gives channel operator status to Fishbot
Mar 06 16:29:57 <grphmstur>	?deop Fishbot
Mar 06 16:29:57 *	MrAtom removes channel operator status from Fishbot
Mar 06 16:29:57 <Fishbot>	?op
Mar 06 16:29:57 *	MrAtom gives channel operator status to Fishbot
Mar 06 16:29:58 <grphmstur>	?deop MrAtom
Mar 06 16:29:58 *	MrAtom removes channel operator status from MrAtom
Mar 06 16:30:02 <Fishbot>	?op
Mar 06 16:30:02 <grphmstur>	?op MrAtom
Mar 06 16:30:11 <grphmstur>	oh, MrAtom can't op himself?
Mar 06 16:30:13 <alberthro>	bot suicide != fun :P
Mar 06 16:30:16 *	Fishbot gives channel operator status to MrAtom

I went to fix the bug, and add a topic command as well:

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Mar 06 16:37:42 *	MrAtom gives channel operator status to AtomASM
Mar 06 16:37:49 <Fishbot>	grr...
Mar 06 16:37:51 <alberthro>	just so that things are a bit smoother :P
Mar 06 16:38:06 <alberthro>	anyway, ?deop doesn't work on itself, and there's a topic command. :)
Mar 06 16:38:11 <alberthro>	?deop MrAtom
Mar 06 16:38:15 <alberthro>	see? :)
Mar 06 16:38:22 <alberthro>	and:
Mar 06 16:38:23 <Fishbot>	?op
Mar 06 16:38:24 *	MrAtom gives channel operator status to Fishbot
Mar 06 16:38:27 <alberthro>	?topic Prizm | Discussing the Casio Prizm | See also http://www.cemetech.net/news.php?id=443
Mar 06 16:38:28 *	MrAtom has changed the topic to: Prizm
Mar 06 16:38:35 <alberthro>	err

Apparently that didn't work out too well, so I quickly fixed that, and it worked:

Code: [Select]

Mar 06 16:42:17 <alberthro>	?topic Prizm | Discussing the Casio Prizm | See also http://www.cemetech.net/news.php?id=443
Mar 06 16:42:18 *	MrAtom has changed the topic to: Prizm | Discussing the Casio Prizm | See also http://www.cemetech.net/news.php?id=443
Mar 06 16:42:21 <grphmstur>	?op Melisma
Mar 06 16:42:22 *	MrAtom gives channel operator status to Melisma
Mar 06 16:42:27 <grphmstur>	was that all?
Mar 06 16:42:28 <grphmstur>	mmk
Mar 06 16:42:30 <alberthro>	yup :)
Mar 06 16:42:37 <alberthro>	also, ?topic can be substituted with ?t
Mar 06 16:42:42 <alberthro>	?t Prizm | Discussing the Casio Prizm | See also http://www.cemetech.net/news.php?id=443
Mar 06 16:42:43 *	MrAtom has changed the topic to: Prizm | Discussing the Casio Prizm | See also http://www.cemetech.net/news.php?id=443
Mar 06 16:43:01 <alberthro>	ok, back to Prizm discussion :P

After a bit, graphmastur/grphmstur disappeared, and I have a mini convo with Fishbot/Qwerty. KermM joined the discussion.

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Mar 06 16:43:19 <alberthro>	is the Prizm fast enough for games and such?
Mar 06 16:43:42 <grphmstur>	probably
Mar 06 16:43:45 <grphmstur>	anyway, cya
Mar 06 16:43:46 *	grphmstur has quit (grphmstur)
Mar 06 16:43:54 <qazz42>	hey..
Mar 06 16:44:29 <alberthro>	it's a mess :P
Mar 06 16:44:36 <alberthro>	but everything's back to normal :)
Mar 06 16:47:30 <Fishbot>	The Prizm is fast enough for games.
Mar 06 16:48:15 <alberthro>	Is the SH3 processor faster than the Z80 per MHz?
Mar 06 16:48:30 <Fishbot>	A heck of a lot faster.
Mar 06 16:49:11 <Fishbot>	z80 instructions take 2-3 clock cycles, the prizm takes 1 for most instructions.
Mar 06 16:49:37 <alberthro>	oh nice :D
Mar 06 16:50:41 <alberthro>	So how's the general GUI drawing on the PRIZM? Is it fast? (basically, it doesn't have the infamous vertical overdraw)
Mar 06 16:50:58 <Fishbot>	In BASIC?
Mar 06 16:51:09 <alberthro>	No, just navigating around in general.
Mar 06 16:51:41 <Fishbot>	There are some noticeable lags when changing screens in the app menu.
Mar 06 16:51:46 <Fishbot>	But it's otherwise fine.
Mar 06 16:52:20 <alberthro>	Ahh ok. By lag do you mean just a pause (no change on the screen), app icon loading, or the vertical overdraw?
Mar 06 16:52:31 <Fishbot>	Pause.
Mar 06 16:53:22 <alberthro>	That's good. I was worried it would do the thing that a touchscreen credit card terminal does.
Mar 06 16:53:37 <Fishbot>	Which is?
Mar 06 16:54:12 <alberthro>	Vertical overdraw - basically, the new screen would draw from top to bottom by row, and it's fast, but noticable.
Mar 06 16:54:29 <Fishbot>	Oh, it doesn't do that.\
Mar 06 16:54:46 <Fishbot>	I think it might use a buffer.
Mar 06 16:54:48 <alberthro>	If it did, that would be pretty icky to sell on the market. :P
Mar 06 16:54:51 <alberthro>	Probably.
Mar 06 16:55:06 <alberthro>	Then the OS just tells the LCD controller to display that buffer.
Mar 06 16:55:30 <Fishbot>	But even if it doesn't, we can make a buffer.
Mar 06 16:56:09 <Fishbot>	We have a few MB of contiguous virtual RAM to use.
Mar 06 16:56:23 <alberthro>	ahh yes, I forgot about the 16 MB of RAM :)
Mar 06 16:56:45 <Fishbot>	2 MB RAM, a bazilllion MB virtual RAM.
Mar 06 16:57:05 <alberthro>	virtual RAM? O_O
Mar 06 16:57:33 <Fishbot>	Yeah, it does some fancy hardware stuff that gives you a ton of free RAM with fake addresses.
Mar 06 16:58:04 <alberthro>	hehe, but i don't think I could have 1 GB of virtual RAM tho :P
Mar 06 16:58:12 <Fishbot>	The physical RAM is located in different locations, but the virtual RAM has nice continuous addresses.
Mar 06 16:58:24 <Fishbot>	Actually, I think it's up to 4 GB virtual RAM :p
Mar 06 16:58:29 <alberthro>	lol :)
Mar 06 16:58:34 <Fishbot>	But the OS limits it way before that.
Mar 06 16:58:46 <alberthro>	what the difference between physical RAM and virtual RAM?
Mar 06 16:58:49 <alberthro>	*what's
Mar 06 16:59:29 <Fishbot>	Virtual RAM is a PITA to work with and doesn't grant much hardware access.
Mar 06 17:00:12 <KermM_>	Disagree
Mar 06 17:00:13 <alberthro>	sounds like a messy hack imo :P
Mar 06 17:00:25 <Fishbot>	It has its uses.
Mar 06 17:00:25 <KermM_>	Virtual addressing is a very valuable tool for segmentation
Mar 06 17:00:35 <KermM_>	and it's used by every single desktop and server OS out there
Mar 06 17:00:50 <Fishbot>	I know. It's very useful for some applications.
Mar 06 17:00:51 <KermM_>	every C program on windows, Mac OS X, and Linux executes in virtual memory
Mar 06 17:01:02 <KermM_>	*every single compiled program
Mar 06 17:01:11 <Fishbot>	But for my purposes on the Prizm, it's an annoyance.
Mar 06 17:01:21 <KermM_>	No, you're missing the scope, it's not useful for applications, it's useful for OSes and kernels
Mar 06 17:01:37 <Fishbot>	Applications as in purposes.
Mar 06 17:01:38 <KermM_>	Even the z80 does sorta-virtual addressing
Mar 06 17:01:46 <KermM_>	by running Apps at $4000

After a bit, Fishbot/Qwerty left:

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Mar 06 17:05:09 * Fishbot has quit (http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
9 minutes later, I typed a jokish comment into the chan:

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Mar 06 17:14:17 <alberthro> seems like this chan is just bots and very quiet people :P
Now this is the part where my minor concerns became vividly valid - 24 minutes later, KermM responds and proceeds to take over the chan with his bot, Melisma:

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Mar 06 17:38:53 <KermM_>	I am both.
Mar 06 17:39:28 *	Melisma gives channel operator status to KermM_
Mar 06 17:39:33 *	KermM_ is now known as KermM
Mar 06 17:39:43 *	KermM removes channel operator status from MrAtom AtomASM
Mar 06 17:39:50 *	KermM removes channel operator status from KermM
Mar 06 17:40:33 <alberthro>	chan takeover, no? :P
Mar 06 17:41:17 <KermM>	Too many ops is bad.
Mar 06 17:41:24 <KermM>	Notice I deop'd myself too ;)
Mar 06 17:41:38 <alberthro>	meh :P at least have MrAtom op'd :P

KermM then proceeds to bring another bot in:

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Mar 06 17:42:24 *	Ginsburg ([email protected]) has joined #prizm
Mar 06 17:43:00 *	Melisma gives channel operator status to Ginsburg
Mar 06 17:43:01 *	Ginsburg sets ban on *!*MALPBot@*
Mar 06 17:43:01 *	Ginsburg sets ban on [email protected]
Mar 06 17:43:01 *	Ginsburg sets ban on moko|log*!*mokomull@dsl-*.aei.ca
Mar 06 17:43:23 <alberthro>	...and I thought 1 op was enough? :P
Mar 06 17:43:42 <Merth>	What if one's connection drops?
Mar 06 17:43:45 <KermM>	You need two bots
Mar 06 17:43:48 <KermM>	For that reason ^
Mar 06 17:43:54 <KermM>	But they have to be linked bots
Mar 06 17:44:00 <KermM>	So that they know to protect each other
Mar 06 17:44:19 <alberthro>	err.... AtomASM and MrAtom was those bots protecting each other. :P
Mar 06 17:44:20 <KermM>	they're also on different servers in case of netsplats.
Mar 06 17:44:42 <alberthro>	good point.
Mar 06 17:45:22 <alberthro>	still, no reason to deop MrAtom :P

After about 2 minutes, I realized that he's never going to op MrAtom, my bot, so I told him that he should at least op Fishbot:

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Mar 06 17:47:00 <alberthro> at least make FishBot op'able, since he's the one who started the chan.
After 7 minutes, mib_lpszq joined the chan and revealed himself to be Fishbot:

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Mar 06 17:54:31 *	mib_lpszq ([email protected]) has joined #prizm
Mar 06 17:54:55 <mib_lpszq>	Whoa, is this that awesome prism channel?
Mar 06 17:54:59 <alberthro>	hello mysterious one :)
Mar 06 17:55:18 <mib_lpszq>	hiya
Mar 06 17:55:24 <alberthro>	indeed it is, although it has gone over an unauthorized takeover :P
Mar 06 17:56:08 <mib_lpszq>	I think that epic coder Qwerty would be annoyed
Mar 06 17:56:10 *	mib_lpszq is now known as Fishbot
Mar 06 17:56:13 <Fishbot>	:p
Mar 06 17:56:23 <Fishbot>	That obvious?
Mar 06 17:56:34 <alberthro>	lol :P
Mar 06 17:57:52 <alberthro>	should've deop'd Melisma :P
Mar 06 17:58:49 <Fishbot>	Darn it.
Mar 06 17:59:36 <Fishbot>	Thanks alberthro.

Now here's the part where I really get pissed off - Merth interjects, and says that KermM can set up ops... even when he can probably op someone himself (with the new bots):

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Mar 06 17:59:49 <Fishbot>	I should be OPable, though...
Mar 06 18:00:03 <Fishbot>	!op
Mar 06 18:00:05 <Merth>	I'm sure KermM will set that up.
Mar 06 18:00:08 <alberthro>	Ehh.... if MrAtom is op'd, sure.
Mar 06 18:00:28 <alberthro>	Not otherwise.

Then Merth makes a snark comment:

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Mar 06 18:00:48 <Merth>	Making it hostmask or nickname based is dangerous, Melisma uses a password, so it'a a little more secure.
Mar 06 18:00:48 <Fishbot>	?op
Mar 06 18:01:17 <alberthro>	bleh :P does that justify taking over the chan? I have another bot that does identification.
Mar 06 18:01:33 <Fishbot>	How many bots do you have? O.o
Mar 06 18:02:23 <alberthro>	Three. MrAtom is my main bot, AtomASM is MrAtom modified to compile Z80, and AaronBot is totally different code (supybot, with the identing).

Meanwhile, KermM is mysteriously missing, probably giggling away at my failure to keep the chan secure...

I bring in the bot that supports identifying after adding Fishbot to the user database and granting him full control over it... and get another snarky comment from Mr. Merth:

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Mar 06 18:07:06 *	AaronBot ([email protected]) has joined #prizm
Mar 06 18:07:38 <Merth>	All your bots are on the same IP.
Mar 06 18:07:58 <alberthro>	Still not a reason for a takeover.
Mar 06 18:08:09 <alberthro>	I have multiple areas to put them, as needed.

OK, so you're going to complain, and instead of offering a solution, sticking your own bots here and taking over? Sounds perfectly logical. [/sarcasm]

That was all. Of course, you guys probably know the rest - I complained in #omnimaga, wrote that in this topic, and then got into a fight with KermM. Interestingly enough, as I go through my logs, I saw this at the end while I was fighting with him:

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Mar 06 19:09:50 *	tev ([email protected]) has joined #prizm
Mar 06 19:09:56 <qazz42>	hai apcalc 
Mar 06 19:12:34 *	FinaleTI ([email protected]) has joined #prizm
Mar 06 19:14:03 <qazz42>	sigh
Mar 06 19:14:59 <KermM>	hi apcalc, tev, FinaleTI :)
Mar 06 19:15:09 <tev>	Hi
Mar 06 19:15:09 <FinaleTI>	Hi guys.
Mar 06 19:16:10 <brooom>	Hey
Mar 06 19:16:12 <brooom>	:)
Mar 06 19:16:34 *	Disconnected ().
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Mar  6 19:16:34 2011

This is probably not the best part of my argument/POV, but I will say that it seems KermM goes on to pretend to own the chan.

Now you see why I'm not quite happy with the situation that occurred yesterday.

In response to some critisizm:
1) I am not a troll. (Or at least I don't think I am one.) The definition of a troll (at least from what I know) is someone who starts or instigates a fight for no reason at all, and in most cases, enjoys it. I have reason for this fight, and it's the massive text above. I just ABHOR this kind of behavior. (Experience: there's a kid at my school who doesn't do crap, and copies from other people, and gets higher grades than me.)
2) I'm not trying to start an Omni vs. Cemetech war, nor am I ever going to do so. In fact, it's one of those knee-jerk reaction accusations that people use. Last time I checked, Omni and Ceme were not combined forums. If you're going to complain about THAT, you're just finding another excuse. In fact, #Prizm is not meant to side with anyone. Even I would disagree with adding any "Omni" bot. Rather, it should be pretty neutral - like #ti. There's no major community power over the chan - just simply good devs. KermM hasn't done much (if at all) to support the Prizm dev; why should he get ops? I will admit that I have a bit of bias for Omnimaga - it tends to nurture a much kinder environment, plus a lot of the Prizm development has occurred here. I respect KermM as a dev, but Fishbot is one of the people in the forefront who has done serious work, and he deserves the control.

Speaking of respect, let me pause a bit to talk about it, since there's some issues that have been happening recently. Respect is something you earn, not get for free. So why do people get more respect when they release programs? Simple - people now know the person as a serious developer, and as a result, can expect more awesome stuff, as well as assistence as needed = respect for the dev. This is the "skills" part of respect. The other part? The "social" side. If you helped someone recently, provided a good tutorial, said something logical and smart, you get respect. Why? You have shown that you are willing to help someone, and that they can depend on you for assistance. They also know that you have some sense, some serious logic, and kindness. This is why you get respect.

Bouncing back from my small tangent, posting a topic about Nspire CX vs. Prizm, and then posting a letter to TI doesn't entitle you to take over a chan. You haven't contributed anything to Prizm development at all - just some petty fight with TI that is very unlikely to be won. Respect from the TI community isn't going to automatically transfer over to the Prizm community - Z80 != SH3. Outside of the TI community, the other Prizm devs are going to treat you as a normal person, not someone who can help. If you want respect, earn it. Respect is not earned by hijacking a chan and slapping a Cemetech label on it. (Frankly, it's considered plagiarizm.) Respect is not earned with quick and dirty self-promotion or ego stroking tricks. It is earned by helping. Help the Prizm guys get stuff done. Help them hack away into the LCD controller, link port, and others. For me, I want to help these guys in anyway possible, whether I get respect or not. It's just the right thing to do.

Back to the discussion of the "control" - my thought was really to have no one person get ops or voice - in fact, "devolution" would occur - if the other Prizm hackers got on to #Prizm, they will get ops.
3) This is not about whose bot is better - this is about net ethics. No one in their sane mind would go deop everyone but an owned bot, and then refused to give ops to the proper owner. What's next - a saxjax in there too? We're talking about taking down a working system, and replacing it with something else. MrAtom was a temporary thing until I get my other bot, AaronBot, set up. Eventually, I would ask Fishbot/Qwerty to create an account on my server, and run a separate bot from there. (If you question my legitimacy with bots, you may ask other people who have used my server. I don't modify bots unless they ask me too.) It doesn't even have to be on my server! The bot doesn't have to be AtomBot - heck, it could even be a Java bot (pIRCbot, for instance). Again, it's all about ethics - is it right to hijack a chan? Take credit for something that you haven't done? Probably not.
4) As for myself, what will I contribute to the Prizm hacking? I would eventually assist them with porting their emulator (once it's done) to Linux, and potentially Mac. I would also help them with some slight promotional things, like GFX, website design, etc. I don't have any assembly background at all, so at this stage someone with good background, like KermM et al, can step in. This is why communities get things done faster - everyone pitches in to help.
5) Ownership/control is important. A leading hacker is needed to answer questions, provide accurate info, etc. to keep the chan going. The channel itself could be considered an icon of the whole community, and it's best that the people who power development represent it as well. That would be Qwerty et. al., not some pompom raiser sticking their name into everything they see.

In the end, what I'm trying to say is that I feel justified in my argument here. It's wrong, and even immoral in my opinion. Respect is key, and I feel that someone (KermM) is trying to earn it (and fame) by hijacking the chan. Omni doesn't qualify for this either - it has to be neutral. The chan should be owned by the developers, not my massive communities. Omni (and eventually Cemetech) can continue (and should continue) to provide a haven and development for the Prizm, but like the #ti, shouldn't be owning a chan dedicated to the Prizm - instead, it should be given control to serious developers (and people who the devs feel fit to be an op).

I don't believe in censorship, so I will release the entire log of #Prizm (up until my departure) to the public.
I have not modified the file in any way - the timestamp remains at March 6th:

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42K 2011-03-06 19:16 EFNet-#prizm.logIf you wish, you may check line by line and verify the legitimacy of the log. I have nothing to hide.
The logs are located here: http://pastebin.com/msXZ16sr

Since this is truly uncensored, I will have to explain some things.
You may see lines like this:

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* #prizm :You're not channel operatorThis is either because I was trying to set the topic, or opened the Ban List in XChat2. (This apparently runs something that requires OP privs, which is pretty silly.)

If you end up agreeing with my argument here, I will be simply comforted by your understanding. If not (and you're NEUTRAL), I will also accept that. Perhaps I might be wrong, mistaken, etc., and that I may learn something if I'm wrong. (If this is the case, please explain clearly why this is the case.) If you don't agree because of trying to stick up to KermM (or become one), you should probably reread it without the prejudice. Just because his IQ's good doesn't mean his EQ is, and the EQ is usually the thing that makes people successful, not their IQ.

*sighs*
That is all.[/code]

DJ Omnimaga · « **Reply #21 on:** March 07, 2011, 05:56:56 pm »

To be fair I think this kind of post is prone to start fights. While it is not necessarily trolling, it still can start unnecessary fights. Personally, I think most Prizm developers should get ops if not already. As for your arguments about how Kerm doesn't deserver ops because he contributes nothing to the Casio Prizm community, then it would mean you don't either, because you contributed nothing so far either. Right now, both of you are planning to contribute. I have mixed feelings about the bot opping changes, because I think the first people to have taken the channel should all remain with op privileges and I hope it isn't some attempt at sticking a Cemetech label on the chan or take control of parts of the Prizm community, but on the other hand I and a lot of others have never seen your botnet in action, if it's even a botnet, and personally I wouldn't even trust Netbot45 and jarvis as bots in the channel, simply because they only work for channels with over 25 users (And there aren,t even close to 25 Prizm hackers around). As for your bot, I am not confident it's a good idea, because in the logs, it already showed errors, no offense.

So basically, for now, if you were to gain ops again, I think the small channel would be more safe using an established botnet like the one currently in, which existed for over a decade. Also since it's an Omni-Cemetech-Casio channel, I guess it would be fair to add a link to the Omnimaga Prizm board in the channel topic as well as the Cemetech's Casio Prizm discussion topic (and board, if Cemetech adds one).

Also don't worry, we do not delete posts here, but I decided to rate your post down because of some false accusations towards Merth for snark comments when he was simply trying to help on bot security and to Kerm for apparently contributing nothing to Prizm development (which is false, as he planned to write a z80 emu for it and encourage people to get the Prizm). Otherwise, I guess I understand your concern, as I was kinda surprised at first at your deopping. I think the channel should remain as neutral as possible. By this, I mean you and Kerm, along with Fishbot, z80man and the others who are participating in Prizm dev. As for channel rules, in my views it should be mostly Prizm discussion and if possible, as clean from spammish trolling as possible.

I would prefer that in the future, you took this discussion outside the forums, though, such as PM'ing Kerm on Cemetech or IRC, because Omnimaga is not the place to rant about that kind of stuff (hence why I said it could still instigate fights).

So on this, I am locking the topic and giving you your first warning. If anyone feels there is a need to discuss other channel matters in this topic besides fighting over stuff, please let a moderator know so he unlocks it.

Author Topic: #Prizm: A Prizm discussion group (Read 10940 times)

qazz42

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Re: #Prizm: A Prizm discussion group