Omnimaga

Calculator Community => Discontinued => Major Community Projects => Elimination => Topic started by: Hot_Dog on October 02, 2011, 02:59:14 pm

Title: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: Hot_Dog on October 02, 2011, 02:59:14 pm
I started this topic because I've had some people telling me that enemies are hard to see because they show up as "pixelated blobs."  Sooner or later, we might have to live with that.  But until then, I've been brainstorming ideas, and calc84maniac was a help as well.  I started this topic so that I can show some things I tried out and get opinions on them.

IDEA 1: Stop thickening enemy textures.

I always thickened the lines that I used to draw enemies so that the player could see them.  However, they do make it hard to tell what's an enemy and what's an object, so I plan later on thinning the lines and instead adding more detail.  BUT, enemies still appear defragmented from a distance, same as other objects.  How can you tell one distorted object from another?

IDEA 2: Show a player that the object is an enemy, not a spaceship or a tree

At the moment, this is what I need an opinion of.  You can see in the screenshot below that every enemy has a gray arrow above it.  That way you can see from far away that an object is an enemy instead of something else.  Right now it's a proof of concept, because I have to remove a couple of bugs where the arrow shows an enemy behind a wall
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: Eeems on October 02, 2011, 03:08:29 pm
That looks great :D
Hmm, you could also try alternates to the arrow, like maybe a circle see which works best.
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: calc84maniac on October 02, 2011, 03:34:11 pm
I like that idea, it really gives you an idea of where the enemies are :)

Though, to keep it from ruining the element of surprise, perhaps you should only draw arrows when the enemies are close to the center of the screen.
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: Hot_Dog on October 02, 2011, 04:26:03 pm
To keep it from ruining the element of surprise, perhaps you should only draw arrows when the enemies are close to the center of the screen.

That's a good idea.  After all, now that there's some way for someone to tell an enemy, I don't have to worry about people having to fire blindly
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: boot2490 on October 03, 2011, 09:21:22 pm
How about only having enimies? scenery never looks good until you are a foot away from it. It is like your character is nearsighted ;D
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: Hot_Dog on October 03, 2011, 09:46:46 pm
How about only having enimies? scenery never looks good until you are a foot away from it. It is like your character is nearsighted ;D

Granted! ;D  But I'm not ready to give it up.  Even if you have to be close to scenery to see it, it adds a pretty touch as opposed to a map that has nothing but walls.
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: boot2490 on October 04, 2011, 11:04:21 am
hmm.. how about everything except for enemies are grey and enimies are black? But some meemies will be grey to fool you...
And/or enemies should meve more so it is more evident. If you make that the case, they should be a little easier to kill.
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: Hot_Dog on October 04, 2011, 12:33:14 pm
hmm.. how about everything except for enemies are grey and enimies are black? But some meemies will be grey to fool you...
And/or enemies should meve more so it is more evident. If you make that the case, they should be a little easier to kill.

Those are both good ideas, so I'll try both.  Although I'm going to make the enemies, not the objects, gray.  Also, the moving around faster might make it hard for a player to aim...I've played this on actual hardware, and it's not easy as it is.
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: LincolnB on October 04, 2011, 05:19:16 pm
How about only having enimies? scenery never looks good until you are a foot away from it. It is like your character is nearsighted ;D

NOO!! I wants scenery!

I also think the gray arrows look totally fine. I would probably prefer to play a game with the gray arrows as opposed to without.
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: boot2490 on October 04, 2011, 08:08:54 pm
What about making scenery gray so you know when you see an enemy? that way you can't see them behind walls.
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: Hot_Dog on October 04, 2011, 09:44:45 pm
What about making scenery gray so you know when you see an enemy? that way you can't see them behind walls.

Can you rephrase?  I'm confused.
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: Camdenmil on October 04, 2011, 10:35:13 pm
What is the size of the enemy sprites right now? If you can't increase detail, I like the arrows.
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 04, 2011, 10:35:41 pm
I personally like the triangles.
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: boot2490 on October 05, 2011, 12:02:41 pm
If the scenery was all gray except for wall outlines, which are black, and then enemies are black, they would be more visible.
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 05, 2011, 03:10:52 pm
Yeah I'm curious if that would make them easier to see. Kinda like how some calc games use gray for background images on which enemies can show up (such as Project M).

Btw this looks great Hot Dog but I think the arrows should be a bit smaller so when there are many enemies they are easier to distinguish from each others.
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: Hot_Dog on October 05, 2011, 04:00:11 pm
If the scenery was all gray except for wall outlines, which are black, and then enemies are black, they would be more visible.

Ah, I gotcha.  Well, as much as I hate the idea of grey scenery, that might be an option
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: boot2490 on October 05, 2011, 07:09:08 pm
Grey scenery might actually be better. I don't know. And for level design:
Don't just randomly place scenery. Place them in geometric or symmetrical patterns. If you have a fountain, surround it with a circle of tall hedges. If you have a computer, surround it with wires and consoles. Scenery in bunches that make sense are good. Random lonely scenery is not.
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: Hot_Dog on October 05, 2011, 09:09:43 pm
Scenery in bunches that make sense are good. Random lonely scenery is not.

I'll definitely keep that in mind, but you'd be surprised how often lonely, random scenery comes up in other games or the real world.  Especially to keep processing power down ;)
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: calc84maniac on October 05, 2011, 10:19:04 pm
Yep, gotta lower that processing power in the real world! :D
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 05, 2011, 11:30:49 pm
Not to mention in soem cases this might look weird since the sprites are always facing you. I mean if you put like 4 computers in line then rotate the camera, it will look like they are rotating to look at you.
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: boot2490 on October 06, 2011, 11:00:31 am
Ghoast computers!!!
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: Hot_Dog on October 18, 2011, 09:31:04 pm
Until other ideas or suggestions come up, I'm going to stick with the arrows pointing to enemies.  I tried coloring objects gray instead of black, and I didn't like like the results in terms of the coloring.
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 18, 2011, 09:52:12 pm
I thought the little arrows looked nice. Maybe if you're up to it you could replace them with health bars? :o
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: Hot_Dog on October 18, 2011, 10:57:33 pm
I thought the little arrows looked nice. Maybe if you're up to it you could replace them with health bars? :o

Deep Thought, remind me to give you a raise ;D

I'll have smaller health bars for regular enemies, and bigger ones for bosses.  Also, to make things easier to code, and to make things easier for the player, low-health enemies will have a half-empty health bar even if they are at full health.
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: ztrumpet on October 18, 2011, 11:04:14 pm
I thought the little arrows looked nice. Maybe if you're up to it you could replace them with health bars? :o

Deep Thought, remind me to give you a raise ;D
I agree, this is an awesome idea.  I think you should double (or even triple) his current salary. O.O
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 18, 2011, 11:21:58 pm
health bars definitively sounds like a nice idea too, if they're not too big. I like how some games got them, like in Starcraft.
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: calc84maniac on October 18, 2011, 11:23:41 pm
Ooh, here's a cool idea: Make an item pickup that turns the enemy indicators into health bars :D
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: Hot_Dog on October 18, 2011, 11:35:14 pm
Ooh, here's a cool idea: Make an item pickup that turns the enemy indicators into health bars :D

Shoot, now I can't decide whether I want the pickup or health bars all the time
Title: Re: Elimination: Detecting objects as enemies
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 19, 2011, 12:24:16 am
I thought the little arrows looked nice. Maybe if you're up to it you could replace them with health bars? :o
Deep Thought, remind me to give you a raise ;D
I agree, this is an awesome idea.  I think you should double (or even triple) his current salary. O.O
Yay, I said something useful :w00t: I demand a 9001% increase in my salary, however. Can you do this?
Ooh, here's a cool idea: Make an item pickup that turns the enemy indicators into health bars :D
Great idea too. Lots of possible bonus packs add replay value to a Game :)