Author Topic: 83/84 family programs that don't work on the nspire 84 and other problems  (Read 10064 times)

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Offline Centari

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Hello, I've recently gotten my hands on an Nspire and I've managed to work my way through infinite reboots and a whole lot of googling. It seems like I'm stuck on a few things now.
I have Ndless 1.7 and OS 1.7, making my 84 keypad OS 2.48

1. I know there are programs for the 83/84 family that don't work on the 84+silver keypad, but is there any way to tell other than trial and error? Pheonix 4.0 works fine (I have MirageOS 1.2 and the nspire patch)
However:
The Renegade level pack works, but the game can't seem to detect the Jupiter level pack.
Simcity, Gemini, and the french Doom with HUD at the right both have working menus but as soon as the actual game starts, the calculator crashes and gives the "ram cleared" message.
Geometry wars will also enter the game, but freeze completely; even if I pop the batteries, it will still go to the initial screen. (so I had to use the reset button from the back)

2. The software won't recognize .z80 files and call them incompatible types

3. just a minor annoyance, but is there any way to reduce the large amounts of flickering and faintness of moving objects in games? Especially the gameboy colour emulator for the Nspire keypad.

The programs quoted can be found here: http://www.ticalc.org/pub/83plus/asm/games/mirageos/
Renegade and Jupiter here: http://tiwizard.com/downloads/index.php?calc=1

Thanks for your time!

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Hi and welcome on the forums!

I'll answer your question the best I can and number them:


Question 1) Unfortunately there is no way currently for the regular users to tell what will work and what will not. Basically games and programs that uses undocumented z80 assembly instructions will not run properly and might even freeze. However, only hardcore ASM programmers with lots of free time could even figure out, if they disassembled the 1000+ games one by one (which would take years).

However, I can tell you that MirageOS requires some sort of patch to run, although I do not rememeber where is it. As alternative to MirageOS, I would suggest Doors CS7. It's 32 KB larger, but unlike MirageOS, it's still regularly maintained and the author have made sure that the shell won't use undocumented z80 opcodes. MirageOS had a great run, but unfortunately the lack of updates and its bugs, even if rare, have put it kinda behind.

TO get Renegade and other games to work, someone would have to recompile them using different code, which might be hard in some cases. As for right now, the only way to tell what works and what don't is through trial and error.

Question 2) z80 is z80 assembly source code, same for .asm. These files are not TI-83 Plus executables. They have to be compiled through softwares such as Spasm, Brass/Latenite (?) ZDS or Doors CS SDK. You need to use the 8xp files for the calculator.

Question 3) Sadly nope, Texas Instruments used an absolutely terrible LCD for the TI-Nspire and TI-Nspire Touchpad models, so terrible that the gbc4nspire author had to artificially reduce the framerate of the emulator to make games somewhat playable.

I hope this helps a bit, although we can't do much about number 1, unless someone released a third-party z80 emulator for the TI-Nspire (which could take years).
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 05:50:59 pm by DJ_O »

Offline christop

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I hope this helps a bit, although we can't do much about number 1, unless someone released a third-party z80 emulator for the TI-Nspire (which could take years).
The Gameboy Color (emulated by gbc4nspire) actually uses a Z80-derived processor, so if Brendan Fletcher (author of gbc4nspire) wants to and has the time to write a TI-83+/84+ emulator, we may have one within a year. If you really want one, see if he is interested in writing it. :)
Christopher Williams

Ashbad

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The thing is, it's a bit harder to emulate the graphics -- changing 256 colors into only 4 could make some scenes possibly unrecognizable.  Also, the size of some GBC ROMS are twice the size (or bigger) than original gameboy ROMS -- making only the really small and simple games available to completely empty 84+ SEs.

Offline Centari

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Thanks for all the help :)
I'm now running Doors cs7 and it has a very nice gui. Are all programs that work with MirageOS compatible with Doors?

I managed to cycle though a bunch of games and they most of them seem to either ramcrash or freeze and force me to reset the memory once the gameplay starts. While I don't have the time to test the same game in both os's, it happens to both of them in various different games. Is this what usually happens?

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Centari: all MirageOS, ION, nostub, and Doors CS programs are compatible with Doors CS 7.

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Also in case you didn't check the DCS Wiki and features, you can also run your ASM programs from the program menu like any basic program, if somehow you don't like navigating through the DCS menus. Keep in mind, however, that no matter if you use Ion, DCS or MirageOS, programs that didn't work on the Nspire will still not work.

Offline willrandship

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@Ashbad, don't forget the GBC is 4 times faster than the GB, too. In other words, worse than the difference between Full and Normal in Axe. It also has more commands.

@DJ I use homerun becaus DCS runs really slow on the nspire. :( Just like axe progs, it doesn't really support 15 mhz, but runs 6 Mhz fine.

Even phoenix is slow, though. Fast Speed is indistinguishable from slow, but slow runs normally.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 08:04:58 pm by willrandship »

Offline calc84maniac

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The thing is, it's a bit harder to emulate the graphics -- changing 256 colors into only 4 could make some scenes possibly unrecognizable.  Also, the size of some GBC ROMS are twice the size (or bigger) than original gameboy ROMS -- making only the really small and simple games available to completely empty 84+ SEs.
Actually, the GBC used 15-bit color, heh. And there are many more complications to emulate GBC: more complex video hardware beyond simply color support, quite a bit more RAM needed (8KB more VRAM and 24KB more WRAM), not to mention that I cannot emulate the WRAM swapping using the TI's page swapping hardware, because the swap is 4KB at $D000-$DFFF. I'd have to copy 8KB of data every time that swapped :( Plus, the GBC could run twice as fast as the GB, and my CPU emulator just can't keep up. And to top it all off, there's the ROM size issue you mentioned. So yeah, GBC isn't going to happen.
"Most people ask, 'What does a thing do?' Hackers ask, 'What can I make it do?'" - Pablos Holman

Offline willrandship

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That's what Nspires are for! :P

Offline Centari

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Again, thanks for all the help!
I have a much better understanding about how these work.
While it's a pity that some don't, I think the programs that *do* work on the Nspire will be more than enough to keep me busy when I happen to be bored with nothing but my graphing calculator. :P

For something with a bit more academic focus, I've heard that the BASIC on the 84 is actually more powerful than the one on the nspire; does this mean that if I start, I should do it on the 84 keypad?

Offline fb39ca4

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Both versions have their strengths and weaknesses. Nspire basic is horrible for games due to the lack of getkey and drawing functions while 8x basic is not as strong (or fast) in complicated math functions.
I would recommend looking at various programs for both platforms, seeing what kinds of stuff they can do, keeping in mind the kinds of programs you want to write. Also, if you choose to program in the 84 emulator, be sure to make frequent backups as the emulator will reset the ram every time the OS is reloaded, and it has a tendency to crash at inconvenient times as well

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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@Ashbad, don't forget the GBC is 4 times faster than the GB, too. In other words, worse than the difference between Full and Normal in Axe. It also has more commands.

@DJ I use homerun becaus DCS runs really slow on the nspire. :( Just like axe progs, it doesn't really support 15 mhz, but runs 6 Mhz fine.

Even phoenix is slow, though. Fast Speed is indistinguishable from slow, but slow runs normally.
Do you have OS 1.7? I tried on 2.0 and it seemed rather fine. 15 MHz programs ran at 6, though.

TI really screwed up this emulator. I wonder if OS 3.0 fixes it or not, though?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 03:34:29 am by DJ_O »

Offline Munchor

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Hello, I've recently gotten my hands on an Nspire and I've managed to work my way through infinite reboots and a whole lot of googling. It seems like I'm stuck on a few things now.
I have Ndless 1.7 and OS 1.7, making my 84 keypad OS 2.48

1. I know there are programs for the 83/84 family that don't work on the 84+silver keypad, but is there any way to tell other than trial and error? Pheonix 4.0 works fine (I have MirageOS 1.2 and the nspire patch)
However:
The Renegade level pack works, but the game can't seem to detect the Jupiter level pack.
Simcity, Gemini, and the french Doom with HUD at the right both have working menus but as soon as the actual game starts, the calculator crashes and gives the "ram cleared" message.
Geometry wars will also enter the game, but freeze completely; even if I pop the batteries, it will still go to the initial screen. (so I had to use the reset button from the back)

2. The software won't recognize .z80 files and call them incompatible types

3. just a minor annoyance, but is there any way to reduce the large amounts of flickering and faintness of moving objects in games? Especially the gameboy colour emulator for the Nspire keypad.

The programs quoted can be found here: http://www.ticalc.org/pub/83plus/asm/games/mirageos/
Renegade and Jupiter here: http://tiwizard.com/downloads/index.php?calc=1

Thanks for your time!

First of all, I'd highly recommend you to use DoorsCS on the 84+ Keypad.

Then, the NSpire processor isn't Z80, it's ARM hence it will not open .z80/.asm files. It shouldn't open ARM Assembly files either since Texas does not allow it.

The reason why some games won't work is because they use undocumented instructions, TI-Boy SE for example.