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Offline Cantaloupe

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New to calculators
« on: August 26, 2013, 08:57:33 pm »
Hello all-
I just started high school and am debating a graphing calculator to buy. Of course, i would use it for school, but on the side i would like to use it for programming, etc. i have looked at the TI-nspire CX CAS and that is what my math teacher reccommended, so that is one of my top options. Another calc that seemed interesting was the HP-50g. Ive heard that it is a very powerful calculator with lots of programming capabilities. Ive also looked at the Casio prizm (doesnt seem to have thst much functionality) and the TI-89 titanium (why get a non-color CAS when you can get the TI-nspire?) Which would be the best for school and of course all the programming and downloading games? Thanks :D

Offline Hooloovoo

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Re: New to calculators
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2013, 09:08:36 pm »
If you want games, the nspire seems like a bad idea at the moment, because they just came out with a new OS version which blocks *everything*, and new calculators ship with that OS.
The BASIC on the Nspires are very limited, and it is virtually impossible to make anything with it. Also stay away from the TI-84PCSE, but it looks like you're in the market for a CAS, so that isn't an issue.
If the HP prime were out I would get that, but it's not, so that's not really an option.
I am not the person to recommend HP or Casio things, so I'll leave that to someone else.
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Offline _Nicco_

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Re: New to calculators
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2013, 09:48:44 pm »
I have an Nspire CX CAS and  I really like it. The problem being that ndless gets blocked almost every time TI updates the OS.  This currently isn't a problem for me since I'm on the older OS.  If you enjoy hacking and figuring out problems you could probably help find an exploit for ndless to work on the new OS.

The Nspire CX CAS supports LUA programming even though it is limited by TI so while you wait for ndless you could always work with lua.  It also has a strong processor,l probably better than every other calculator that is currently out.

The 89 titanium has lots of programs and it's screen is a lot better than that of an 84.  You can program the titanium in C TI Basic and I'm sure some more languages like assembly.

I would probably go with the Nspire CX CAS since I usually don't like buying something that is already outdated even if that meant waiting for an ndless exploit.  You could always buy used and ask the seller what OS is on the calculator.

For school an 84 might be best since almost all math teachers know how to use them.  With the Nspire I have to figure everything out on my own and no one else can help me since I'm the only person at my school with one.

I am also not an HP person but I know that engineers use HP calculators since I spoke with a couple and they all used the HP 50g.
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: New to calculators
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2013, 10:37:07 pm »
Hello all-
I just started high school and am debating a graphing calculator to buy. Of course, i would use it for school, but on the side i would like to use it for programming, etc. i have looked at the TI-nspire CX CAS and that is what my math teacher reccommended, so that is one of my top options. Another calc that seemed interesting was the HP-50g. Ive heard that it is a very powerful calculator with lots of programming capabilities. Ive also looked at the Casio prizm (doesnt seem to have thst much functionality) and the TI-89 titanium (why get a non-color CAS when you can get the TI-nspire?) Which would be the best for school and of course all the programming and downloading games? Thanks :D
Heya and welcome here, here is my personal opinion, as a TI fan:

-TI-Nspire CX/TI-Nspire CX CAS pros:
Very good for math classes
Features Lua language.
Lots of RAM and Flash memory

-TI-Nspire CX/TI-Nspire CX CAS cons:
Very limited TI-BASIC language
Closed to ASM/C games. Hacks exists, but TI made it impossible to install them on newer OS/models. Don't get the Nspire if you plan to use it to play/program games.
Development community is shrinking in size at an alarming rate, although the calculator is still popular.
Can also be a bit hard to use if you are used to scientific calcs.
In the case of the CAS model, it is expensive and banned from many USA tests.

-TI-89 Titanium pros:
Very good ASM/C/BASIC support
Many programs already available for latest OSes
Has a decent amount of RAM and Flash

-TI-89 Titanium cons:
Very expensive
Almost nobody develops programs for them anymore, so it's hard to get help now.
On the verge of being discontinued
Monochrome/grayscale screen

-TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition pros:
Full ASM/BASIC support. ASM libs available for use by BASIC programmers.
Decent amount of Flash
Old school (if you like pushing outdated hardware to its limits or simply like NES/SNES-like games, then this calc is for you)
Not too hard to get used to or program for

-TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition cons:
Typing is slow, as well as refreshing the entire screen at once. There are workarounds for fast typing or fast graphics, though
Since the calc just came out, the game/program library is still small, but several 82 Stats/76.Fr/83/83+/84+ math programs will still run perfectly.
Low amount of RAM

-TI-84 Plus/Silver Edition pros:
Full ASM/BASIC/Axe/C/Grammer/FastRPL support. ASM libs available for BASIC programmers.
Decent amount of Flash (except 83 Plus)
Old school, although graphics are faster than on the color model
Not too hard to get used to or program for
Has by far the largest community userbase and library of programs

-TI-84 Plus/Silver Edition cons:
Very small monochrome screen
Low RAM
In the case of the regular 83 Plus, low Flash and slower processor, plus many recent games won't run
Has fewer options than the color model (disabling asyptome graphing, for example)

-HP 49g/50g pros:
Very high amount of Flash
Fast processor
RPN functionalities
Suited for engineering/advanced math

-HP 49g/50g cons:
Small monochrome screen
Almost no game available.
No development community
Very hard to program for (as far as I know, its on-calc language is stack-based, so if you had troubles understanding assembly or RPL before, then good luck), which might explain the smaller game library.
Since it has a CAS, it's banned in some US tests

-HP Prime pros:
Very high amount of RAM and Flash
Fast CPU
Touchscreen
By far the best and fastest BASIC language available on any calc, even rivaling Z80/68K ASM and Nspire Lua

-HP Prime cons:
Not released yet (comes out in Late September), although an emulator is available for free and lets you save programs. This is why there aren't many programs yet.
On the expensive side
Slow typing (although that can be worked around, such as using the emulator for development or using the touchscreen)
No words yet if it will be accepted in all tests. Although its CAS can be disabled, it has a touch screen.
No ASM/C support yet (although it's in the works) but it won't be needed for a while, considering how fast BASIC is.


-HP 39gII pros:
Decent amount of RAM and high amount of Flash
Somewhat fast CPU
Very fast BASIC language, rivaling some TI ASM games
Quite cheap

-HP 39gII cons:
Extremely buggy (so much that it barely gets usable even for educational purposes)
Small grayscale screen
Slow typing in the program editor

-Casio PRIZM pros:
Somewhat cheap considering the CPU and color screen resolution
Good amount of Flash
unnoficial ASM/C/Lua support. Some BASIC ASCII art game programming possible

-Casio PRIZM cons:
Extremely slow BASIC language when it comes to drawing. It makes any game development virtually impossible unless they're ASCII art.
Not very popular in the community

-FX 9860G/9860GII pros:
Very cheap considering the CPU speed
Decent amount of Flash
ASM/C support. BASIC game development possible.

-FX-9860G/9860GII cons:
Many ASM/C programs requires a specific hardware revision to run, because newer models use a different processor
BASIC on the slow side considering the CPU speed
Only popular in France (even more than the PRIZM, though)

-Classpad series pros:
Touchscreen
CAS

-Classpad cons:
Absolutely overpriced (it makes the TI-89T and Nspire CAS look cheap!)
Incredibly slow BASIC language (even worse than the PRIZM)
Color model lacks ASM/C capabilities
Almost nobody programs for them

Personally, my favorite models are the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition and the HP Prime. The former uses outdated hardware, but it is the most suitable color calc for development for now. The HP Prime isn't out yet and still lacks ASM/C support, but its BASIC capabilities are enough to make any programmer drool. I also like the TI-84 Plus Silver Edition because it's incredibly popular, and the Casio PRIZM still has some potential and a decent price. For school usage, the 84 models and the TI-Nspire CX have a good reputation, but if you plan to program them, avoid the Nspire CX and ClassPad 400 at any cost.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 11:02:52 pm by DJ Omnimaga »

Offline TIfanx1999

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Re: New to calculators
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2013, 10:41:02 pm »
Hello all-
I just started high school and am debating a graphing calculator to buy. Of course, i would use it for school, but on the side i would like to use it for programming, etc. i have looked at the TI-nspire CX CAS and that is what my math teacher reccommended, so that is one of my top options. Another calc that seemed interesting was the HP-50g. Ive heard that it is a very powerful calculator with lots of programming capabilities. Ive also looked at the Casio prizm (doesnt seem to have thst much functionality) and the TI-89 titanium (why get a non-color CAS when you can get the TI-nspire?) Which would be the best for school and of course all the programming and downloading games? Thanks :D

Hello Cantelope, Welcome to Omnimaga! In regards to your question:

The TI-Nspire CX CAS is okay, but programing is limited to LUA if you get a new model. The calculator has BASIC too, but you can't really do a lot with it. If you purchase a used model, you can program C or ARM ASM and use games and programs that were written in those languages.

A lot of engineers like the HP 50G, but there aren't going to be as many people around that know how to use it, (virtually no one here) and it isn't as intuitive IMO. It has RPL as the built in language and a version of BASIC (I think). Other than that I'm not sure.

The Casio Prizm is a decent machine, and you have BASIC (which is kind of slow), and C or ASM. The Prizm has aI high resolution color display, but lacks a CAS.

The TI-89 is a nice machine and supports programming in BASIC, C, ASM, and a few other languages. It has the largest library of programs of any of the calculators mentioned, but it has largely fallen out of use. Most people these days use either the TI-84 series or the Nspire.

It's also worth mentioning, that the TI-84 series is still the most popular and the most actively developed for. Anyways, I hope that helps.

Offline Adriweb

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Re: New to calculators
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2013, 10:50:53 pm »
Here's a personal opinion :)

Over all other calcs I have (/ have tried), I'd definitely go with the Nspire CX (CAS) (and if possible, not the J hardware revision -latest at his time-) so that you can try the best of both worlds :
- probably the most advanced, portable, math/science things available with this level of user experience / intuitive-ness. (At this point, the HP Prime is powerful bot not polished enough right now, I believe, for most end-users)
- well, the most powerful apps/games/whatever when using 3.1 with Ndless (native development made possible). While Lua is a big relief for programmers since TI-Basic is a big no-no for programming graphical things (the Basic on the Nspire is pretty much only made for math algorithms, and for that it's great), it's obviously not as powerful as C/ASM.



But over time (and also because I'm now 4 years after High School), I've come to think that using a calculator for gaming is becoming quite obsolete with all the smartphones and such that "everybody" tends to have and use [exceedingly?]. I'll have to say that for the past 3 or even 4 years, I haven't used my calculators for gaming at all. Everytime I used my Nspire, it was for math/science-related purposes. And for that it's particularly adapted (of course !). Before all that, I indeed was programming quite a lot on my 84+ ... during class; but is that still what people do nowadays ? At this time, smartphones didn't exist...
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 10:51:24 pm by adriweb »
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Offline Xeda112358

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Re: New to calculators
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2013, 11:07:34 pm »
Before all that, I indeed was programming quite a lot on my 84+ ... during class; but is that still what people do nowadays ? At this time, smartphones didn't exist...
Teachers don't like us to use phones in class... I program a lot in classes, but my programs are always about what we are doing in class. For example, taking a fractals class, I would write programs on my calculator to draw the same fractals. For graph theory, linear algebra, and statistics, I would make programs to quickly solve and analyse problems.
I use my Nspire for playing Pokémon Gold and for lots of math since it is so much faster than my TI-84+.

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: New to calculators
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2013, 01:04:25 am »
Yeah many schools disallow phones in classes as well as iPads and stuff. Phones are often seen as a nuisance, because of students who keep texting in classes or calling their mates. And there are still some people playing calc games in classes, but mostly the classics or on emulators. Personally, I wouldn't encourage people to ditch calc gaming/programming on a website that actually lives from it. :P

Younger people tend to get into calc programming or gaming, then stop around 18 years old, but there are still young people arriving who are interested in it. Also I think there is the whole factor of showing off or looking cool by having a game running on a calculator that's not designed for it. Maybe not in large numbers like in 2004, but still going strong in certain areas. Just see ticalc.org downloads at the start of school year: They are still as high as way back then.

I think that one reason why calc programming remains popular on certain models like the 84+ is because it's one of the few device on which it's possible to program on-calc using very simple languages without requiring installing a single tool. The on-calc programability also helps when it's not a major PITA, which is probably why we'll see fewer and fewer complex ASM/C programs, yet still many BASIC/Axe games.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 01:14:28 am by DJ Omnimaga »

Offline Adriweb

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Re: New to calculators
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2013, 11:41:10 am »
Oh, I know phones are mostly not allowed, but that has never prevented any students from doing so, at least that's what I see everyday.
But in theory, playing on your calculator on or your phone is "the same", as in you're not listening...

And yes, me too I also was making programs related to the current lesson, although (in France at least), in my HS years, there wasn't much that could be related to programming or could be done through programs, sadly.

And anyway, to continue my point : if I had an Nspire at that time, programming math related things would have been 9001x easier than on the 84+ ^^
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Re: New to calculators
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2013, 04:32:43 pm »
Remember that Nspire CXs can use Lua, so all is not lost if you decide to get that. I have a TI-89 Titanium myself, but the 68k programming community had declined long ago. I also own a Prizm, but it lacks a CAS, so you might not want that.
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Offline Cantaloupe

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Re: New to calculators
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2013, 08:02:16 pm »
Thanks for the great replies, they're very helpful! I think I will go with a nspire cx cas just for school (at least for now :D) then possibly get a ti84 or FX-9860GII later for programming, etc. is there anyway to downgrade or hack the nspire cx cas to run games, etc???

On a further note, the hp prime is pretty much an iPhone, and kinda defeats the fun of a calculator (or at least in my sense :P)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 08:04:27 pm by Cantaloupe »

Offline Hooloovoo

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Re: New to calculators
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2013, 08:38:55 pm »
If you get a used nspire, there should be a way to downgrade it, and run C and assembly programmers. If you get a brand new one, chances are that it will have new code on it which prevents it from being downgraded. Even though the nspire can't run ASM/C games anymore, it can run Lua.
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Re: New to calculators
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2013, 08:48:16 pm »
Where is the break between old and new Nspires?
I have an Nspire but do not know if I can downgrade it.

Offline Hooloovoo

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Re: New to calculators
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2013, 08:59:32 pm »
The break is in *very* new nspires, revision J or later. Read the recent front page news to learn more.
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Re: New to calculators
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2013, 12:10:02 am »
So if I got my Nspire on September 10th-ish, 2012. I would probably be good, right?