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Author Topic: RAM loss?  (Read 19420 times)

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Offline aeTIos

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Re: RAM loss?
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2010, 03:03:11 pm »
but I cant play it 'cause I have too less RAM to run TVF in it :/
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Offline squidgetx

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Re: RAM loss?
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2010, 03:10:18 pm »
Quote from: ztrumpet on November 09, 2010, 07:12:20 pm
Quote from: squidgetx on November 09, 2010, 05:05:43 pm
Hidden MOS/DCS programs take up even more space.
Actually, they take the same amount of space weather they are hidden or not. :)

O.o really? I never knew that; it seemed that when I would unhide things RAM would free up....I guess I was wrong there. Thanks for pointing that out :)
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Offline Deep Toaster

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Re: RAM loss?
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2010, 03:57:38 pm »
It's still in normal RAM, and that's why RAM clears clear hidden prgms.
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Offline yunhua98

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Re: RAM loss?
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2010, 04:26:58 pm »
some of my programs are hidden, and they never get cleared after RAM clears.  ???
I unhid them but I dson't gain more RAM, as expected.  ;)
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Offline Deep Toaster

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Re: RAM loss?
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2010, 07:52:16 pm »
Weird, can you get a screenie? RAM clears always delete hidden prgms for me. Unless they're archived, of course. Maybe you archived them before hiding?
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Offline ztrumpet

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Re: RAM loss?
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2010, 11:08:31 pm »
Yes, they're archived. :)
If you archived them before hiding them, bad things can happen on the next Garbage Collect (i.e. Ram Clear).  Please Hide then archive to retain RAM after your next Garbage Collection. ;D
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: RAM loss?
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2010, 11:13:10 pm »
THis happens with Mirage, right?
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Offline ztrumpet

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Re: RAM loss?
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2010, 11:19:46 pm »
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on November 10, 2010, 11:13:10 pm
THis happens with Mirage, right?
Yup, basically any program that lets you hide things.  Well, except for this little know never used (by anyone) shell: http://ourl.ca/3809/69361
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: RAM loss?
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2010, 01:48:37 am »
Wow I totally forgot about that. It was kinda interesting. I guess I kinda forgot since Eeems had a project called Oasis a while ago too.
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Offline DrDnar

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Re: RAM loss?
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2010, 07:30:37 pm »
I'm not sure what you think the problem here is. The TIOS keeps a list of all programs---the VAT---in RAM. Each program in the archive still takes at least 7 bytes of RAM just for the OS to keep track of its existence*. The same applies for lists, appvars---everything except Applications. If you have a lot of programs, you'll have less free RAM.

This is a bit of a simplification. I believe lack of a VAT entry won't cause an item to be lost from a garbage collect cycle, but you won't be able to access it in anyway. If you hold down a certain button while rebooting, the OS will skip enumeration of the archive, and you'll have the full 24 K of free RAM. And no programs.

Edit: Whoops. Apparently I didn't notice that there's a page 2 here.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 07:32:12 pm by DrDnar »
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: RAM loss?
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2010, 07:32:38 pm »
Quote from: DrDnar on November 11, 2010, 07:30:37 pm
If you hold down a certain button while rebooting, the OS will skip enumeration of the archive, and you'll have the full 24 K of free RAM. And no programs.
CLEAR, to be exact. You hold it while putting back a battery, I believe, or when pressing ON. Also I think normally when you do a regular RAM clear afterward it shows the programs again.

Quote from: DrDnar on November 11, 2010, 07:30:37 pm
Edit: Whoops. Apparently I didn't notice that there's a page 2 here.
And 3 ;D
« Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 07:35:51 pm by DJ Omnimaga »
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Offline Deep Toaster

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Re: RAM loss?
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2010, 08:41:02 pm »
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on November 11, 2010, 07:32:38 pm
Quote from: DrDnar on November 11, 2010, 07:30:37 pm
If you hold down a certain button while rebooting, the OS will skip enumeration of the archive, and you'll have the full 24 K of free RAM. And no programs.
CLEAR, to be exact. You hold it while putting back a battery, I believe, or when pressing ON. Also I think normally when you do a regular RAM clear afterward it shows the programs again.

What exactly does holding down CLEAR when turning it on do? It doesn't seem to do anything (no message, unlike holding down DEL). And TI's guidebooks have nothing on it (not that they have anything else that's important :P).
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Offline FloppusMaximus

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Re: RAM loss?
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2010, 10:39:29 pm »
It only does anything when you turn the calculator on after a reset.  And I'd guess it isn't documented anywhere because TI never anticipated people would ever need to use it - I think the main reason it exists is to allow you to boot the OS and reset the archive if it ever gets seriously corrupted.

Normally, for every archived variable, the OS keeps a VAT entry in RAM - i.e., the variable's name, type, and the address where it's stored in Flash.  These entries are used so that the OS, and other programs, can easily locate the variable.  Like DrDnar said, holding CLEAR when you first turn the calculator on stops the OS from scanning the archive and building these VAT entries; as a result, all your archived variables will be "hidden."
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: RAM loss?
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2010, 10:46:36 pm »
Oh I believe I saw that key combination mentionned in the TI-83+ guidebook. Not much info was given, IIRC, though. Let me check...

EDIT: Here we go :P (in case TI removed that info from the online manual. We never know with them. And my manual is starting to show its age) I used ON+CLEAR to get myself out of some weird crash that caused the calc to turn OFF instead of RAM clearing. Doing a RAM clear after the CLEAR trick made the calc turn OFF and resetting arc vars froze the calc. I lost an entire project due to that (Illusiat 2002). Nonetheless, the trick can be handy. I wish it worked on the TI-Nspire...
« Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 11:10:39 pm by DJ Omnimaga »
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Offline FloppusMaximus

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Re: RAM loss?
« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2010, 09:57:51 pm »
Interesting.  So it is documented, in a way.

I'm not sure, but I think I've seen situations where some part of the archive gets so broken that neither resetting "Vars" nor "Apps" will work, and the only way to recover is to reset "Both" or "All Memory".  I've never had "All Memory" fail to work, but if it does, there's always the option of a boot mode self test, which resets everything except the certificate, or you could try flashing PongOS and erasing everything by hand.
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