Hello,
My religious views (or lack thereof) have been offending several people on this forum and IRC channel lately.  I'd like to clear the air and get my views out in the open, in complete form.
If you are easily offended, please stop reading.  I take no responsibility for offending anyone in this post.  Keep that in mind.  You read at your own risk, and complaints about the presentation are less likely to be taken seriously.  It is difficult to word this in the first place, let alone without offense.
Also, I'd like you to think twice before you rate down any posts here.  Think about how I could have worded this any differently, first.  I don't want to offend, like always, but this topic is tender.

I'd like you to humor me for a moment and think of something.  Many of you are familiar with The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.  If you aren't, the readers digest is this:
Obviously, this is outlandish and no one could possibly believe it to be true.  Now imagine if this creation story were several times stranger, and you still knew it wasn't true.  Then imagine if the vast majority of the world's population - billions of people - believed that story, or something similar.  And not only people today, imagine that people for thousands of years have believed that and similar stories.  Imagine if someone really, truly believed in the Flying Spaghetti Monster - and that the rest of the world shared in that view, and that you were one of an extreme majority that believed in [fill in your beliefs here].  Now add to that the fact that virtually every crime you can think of and dozens of wars have happened in the name of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.  And that every Sunday, you're bored out of your mind with no friends around to hang out with because they are all off worshiping this deity.

Now, you'd probably be pretty pissed off at this religion.  Everyone seems to follow it, and you know it to be completely false.  Not only that, people get offended when you call them on it.

This is how I feel about every religion, ever.  Your religion offends me.  I don't know how to say it nicely.  I just want to come out and say it.  So please stop getting all defensive towards me when I make a small comment about religion.  It's all I can do to not post an essay about how wrong you are, your delusional state of mind, etc.  Take it as a blessing that I don't go completely ape shit and post about how much your religion sucks.  I've never targeted an individual's beliefs (even though some people see it as a personal hit).

I don't have to respect your religion - in fact, I don't.  But I do tolerate it, and please accept that as enough.

Well... my issue is if you bash people for having a different point of view than you or for believing in something you don't, or if you post in a topic about religion without being careful about offending people. This is where I and some people can have a problem. Example, your last post that did that had a -5 rating and the entire admins of Omnimaga opened a discussion about the possibility of a staff demotion due to past warnings.

That post specifically was some of my inspiration for writing this one.  I just want to clear the air and get my full opinion out, instead of bits and pieces.  I never aim to offend, I just speak my mind (which is a curse sometimes).

Your views on religion are the same as anyone else's, in that you'll make no friends telling them to other people, and acting like you're better because of them.

Also, your comparing of a foundation for peoples' lives to a spaghetti monster is out of line. You can't honestly claim that you tolerate something you're degrading and belittling.

I suggest that you keep your religious views and offense to yourself. If you must degrade others' ways of life, try to do it in a way that's not claiming that they are believing in a flying spaghetti monster.

Personally, I am athiest too, but I believe that comments like this don't do anything beneficial. You'll just piss people off and alienate yourself.

I just want to clear the air and get my full opinion out, instead of bits and pieces.  I never aim to offend, I just speak my mind (which is a curse sometimes).

Speaking your opinion is one thing, degrading others' opinions is another.

What the Spaghetti monster proves is that its impossible to disprove a religion like christianity. It was not supposed to be compared to others religions like you did Sir. I agree with your overall point, but I have to agree with Netham that you presented it badly.

I know this is a very sensitive topic that people are easily offended by so If I were you I would just try to avoid it. It just causes problems to get into discussions on it. Because you can never disprove their point

EDIT:

When I have my opinions degraded and shot down constantly, I won't just take it lying down.

This is just proof that it is never a good idea to get into a discussion on religion except with people who believe extremely close to you and even then you keep it to just that subject. Discussing religions you don't believe in just causes problems

Your opinions are only shot down because of how you present them. Stating your opinion isn't bad. It can create conflict, yes, any opinion can, but when you present it rudely and offensively, you're going to get poor reception, and people are going to shoot them down.

A comparison is not necessary, people will understand what you mean when you say that you don't believe in religion. What you're doing is the same thing as a religious person trying to convert you.

Also, you didn't claim people believe in a spaghetti monster, but you said that Christianity is the same thing and that believing in that is just as bad. That is what I meant.

Your opinions are only shot down because of how you present them. Stating your opinion isn't bad. It can create conflict, yes, any opinion can, but when you present it rudely and offensively, you're going to get poor reception, and people are going to shoot them down.

A comparison is not necessary, people will understand what you mean when you say that you don't believe in religion. What you're doing is the same thing as a religious person trying to convert you.

Also, you didn't claim people believe in a spaghetti monster, but you said that Christianity is the same thing and that believing in that is just as bad. That is what I meant.

Understand that to me, they are the same thing.  They both have about the same level of truth in my opinion.  Why is a flying spaghetti monster any more or less likely than an invisible man in the sky?  How would you suggest I make my point without a comparison.  I feel like the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the only comparison that really can get a theist to see my point of view.

Its not that they are easily offended its that this is a subject that will almost inevitably offend people. And it is especially true for how you presented it.

EDIT:

Quote from: Netham45 on May 25, 2011, 08:31:49 pm

Your opinions are only shot down because of how you present them. Stating your opinion isn't bad. It can create conflict, yes, any opinion can, but when you present it rudely and offensively, you're going to get poor reception, and people are going to shoot them down.

even if you present these ideas nicely they will still get down because most people have deeply rooted beliefs and they are almost impossible to convince otherwise. many people respond very angrily at any attempt to unroot their ideas.

First of all, due to my extreme warnings about the possibility of being offended by my post, I don't take any responsibility for people being offended.  To say this as nice as possible, you were warned, and ignored the warning.

As for a nice presentation, ruler is right that no presentation is a nice presentation in the eyes of theists.

Quote from: Netham45 on May 25, 2011, 08:31:49 pm

Your opinions are only shot down because of how you present them. Stating your opinion isn't bad. It can create conflict, yes, any opinion can, but when you present it rudely and offensively, you're going to get poor reception, and people are going to shoot them down.

A comparison is not necessary, people will understand what you mean when you say that you don't believe in religion. What you're doing is the same thing as a religious person trying to convert you.

Also, you didn't claim people believe in a spaghetti monster, but you said that Christianity is the same thing and that believing in that is just as bad. That is what I meant.

Understand that to me, they are the same thing.  They both have about the same level of truth in my opinion.  Why is a flying spaghetti monster any more or less likely than an invisible man in the sky?  How would you suggest I make my point without a comparison.  I feel like the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the only comparison that really can get a theist to see my point of view.

I would bet against them ever coming to your side which is one reason I keep trying to make a point that discussions like this(well on religion between people who believe different things) are pointless. the roots are very deeply planted in 90% of people you'd talk to and nothing will ever change that.
I do not think you should be rated down for this post, but I do think it should not have been posted or at least mores sugarcoated.

Quote from: SirCmpwn on May 25, 2011, 08:35:28 pm

Understand that to me, they are the same thing.  They both have about the same level of truth in my opinion.  Why is a flying spaghetti monster any more or less likely than an invisible man in the sky?  How would you suggest I make my point without a comparison.  I feel like the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the only comparison that really can get a theist to see my point of view.

Offensive statement:
I'ma let you in on a secret, no one cares about your opinion, just like you don't care about anyone else's on the topic.

Agreed.  I personally can't respect your argument if you can't respect other's.  It would be a different story if you would be a little bit more open minded.  Offensive: You're acting like a stereotypical extremist atheist.  Please don't simply slander view of others, even if you do give a warning, if you want to break from this unfair mold.  I would personally like to think otherwise of you than you being so extreme, you I wish you would dilute your hate towards religion a bit, or at least dilute the appearance of your hate.