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Quote from: Hayleia on May 22, 2013, 08:05:34 amOk. So then this can be said:"How was the world created?""It wasn't. End of story."No need for God then.Note: I am still not saying "don't believe in God", you believe in anything you want. I just say that God is a possibility but only a possibility among others, maybe there is a God, maybe not, maybe there are two Gods, I don't know That is right, and that is why I stated:Quote from: Xeda112358 on May 22, 2013, 07:50:10 amThis is not at all proof of a God-- this would be like saying, "if wizards existed, they could perform magic, so therefor magic must exist" without proving that wizards exist.
Ok. So then this can be said:"How was the world created?""It wasn't. End of story."No need for God then.Note: I am still not saying "don't believe in God", you believe in anything you want. I just say that God is a possibility but only a possibility among others, maybe there is a God, maybe not, maybe there are two Gods, I don't know
This is not at all proof of a God-- this would be like saying, "if wizards existed, they could perform magic, so therefor magic must exist" without proving that wizards exist.
"welcome to the world of computers, where everything seems to be based on random number generators"
I'd just like to congratulate everyone on getting to 5 pages without a flame war. I think this prove we really can have a religious debate without going off the deep end.
In order for me to believe something, I require evidence; that's just how my mind works.
Really? So you have to believe in very few things. And you're doing as Pierre did. But since you need to believe to get the hard evidence in you, you're on an impasse.
I would not say that evolution and Christianity are equal in that they both are believed in by faith. Evolution is not blind faith; there is massive support and evidence for it.Fine, evolution is a theory, but people often misinterpret "theory" for just a guess. A scientific theory actually very comprehensive and is tested and confirmed repeatedly. There is tons of evidence for evolution that can be seen in both living and dead creatures.
Also, theists frequently say that there must be a first cause to start everything, so therefore it must be God.Even if there is some supernatural creator to set the universe in motion, how do you know that it is the Christian god? It could be any other supernatural being.I also find that this is somewhat saying, "Science doesn't know, therefore God."If we don't know something, it isn't very reasonable to conclude that it must be because of God. I'd instead rather search harder and attempt to find an explanation that can actually be supported. Even if an explanation can never be found by science, I'd rather leave that gap of knowledge empty as opposed to filling it with religion
As a generalization, Christians believe that they are the only religion and that all other religions are completely false. They feel they will be the ones to live while everyone else suffers in H E double hockey sticks. Zero tolerance...At Muslims have some sort of respect for Christianity because of the same sort of belief in one supreme being.
Religion in general, however, is silly.
We use it like myths to explain things we really can't. We use it only when it suits us and when we feel like we need something to make us feel better.
Quote from: mdr1 on May 21, 2013, 04:52:12 pmWhen you're speaking about logic, what is logic about the big bang the appears from nowhere ? It's impossible, it must have an origin. Nothing can be its own origine. This is quite strange to me when a page or two back you said:Quote from: mdr1God lives forever and fromever, that's all. There's no origin to his life. He invented time, so you can't apply to him this notion.These two statements seem contradictory to me. You say that God has no origin and has always existed. Yet you state that the big bang could not simply have just happened, nor could it have created itself. You also say that everything must have an origin. Why is it acceptable for one thing but not the other?
When you're speaking about logic, what is logic about the big bang the appears from nowhere ? It's impossible, it must have an origin. Nothing can be its own origine.
God lives forever and fromever, that's all. There's no origin to his life. He invented time, so you can't apply to him this notion.
Are you saying that to convince us that you do exist ? How could we trust in you because you say that you could believe that we don't exist ?Moreover, how can you be sure that you really exist ? Isn't it an illusion ? As a case in point, AI in computer games have the illusion that they exist, but it is not true.
I'd just like to congratulate everyone on getting to 5 pages without a flame war. I think this prove we really can have a religious debate without going off the deep end.Also, if this thread does start to develop into a flame war, could the offending posts be removed instead of locking the whole topic?
I saw this thread and I knew I had to jump in.I have an intersting relligious development in my 16 years of life. When I was a wee little lad, my brother and I used to blame all the bad things on "God and Jesus". We used to say it was all their fault. As we grew older we went through a super religious phase. Now that I'm older, I am agnostic, not atheist, but agnostic. I find the concept of religion to be annoying, but Chrisitanity by far really upsets me. As a generalization, Christians believe that they are the only religion and that all other religions are completely false. They feel they will be the ones to live while everyone else suffers in H E double hockey sticks. Zero tolerance...At Muslims have some sort of respect for Christianity because of the same sort of belief in one supreme being.Religion in general, however, is silly. We use it like myths to explain things we really can't. We use it only when it suits us and when we feel like we need something to make us feel better. Also, I feel that all religions are false. They have no truth in them at all. My opinion on death might seem... strange, however. To me death is death. I do not fear death because its not like after you die you're gonna be all upset that you're dead right? (Yeah that's pretty bad...) It just happens, there's no afterlife just an end.
Everyone has their own version of what is paradise in their heads.
Because you are at perfection, because you cannot go higher, happiness ends. Change ends, motion stops. There is nowhere left to go because of that. To me, this is a really bad thing because ope itself comes from the prospect of achieving such a reality. But once you reach is, there's nowhere for hope to come from anymore since there is no imperfection to overcome.
There's also a few things I have with the idea of intelligent design. If nothing existed before God, and God created everything, what was God's reason/motivation to create anything and what was His point of reference for creation? Because nothing existed, there would be nothing that could cause God to begin His creation. Conventional concepts such as boredom and discontent would not exist because there counterparts such as excitement would not exist either because there was nothing that could elicit such emotion.
Quote from: ben_g on May 21, 2013, 04:38:59 pmPersonally, I believe in science. I believe that the big bang created the universe, and that humans evolved from other live forms. It just seems the most logical to me. And what has triggered the big bang? We'll never know. It's one of the mysteries of life, a gap that science will never be able to fill.The idea that a god creates everything feels more like moving the problem. The fact that you just have to believe that He always existed, and that he is a creature so advanced that he can create everything doensn't sound logical to me, but I guess the big bang doesn't sound logical to a religious person either.I find it easier to believe that an explosion suddenly started to exist than that a creature so advanced as a god suddenly started to exist and createdeverything. But it all comes to your point of view. There is now way to prove for the other parties that you are correct. Because there are hundreds of religions (let's just count science as one for now), the chance that you are fully correct is very small. That is why we should respect anyone who shooses an other religion as you.It does not mean anything to "believe in science". Science isn't a religion. You can believe in God and pratice science, there's no problem for that.When you're speaking about logic, what is logic about the big bang the appears from nowhere ? It's impossible, it must have an origin. Nothing can be its own origine. Another point: believing in God is not like loto to play for chance.
Personally, I believe in science. I believe that the big bang created the universe, and that humans evolved from other live forms. It just seems the most logical to me. And what has triggered the big bang? We'll never know. It's one of the mysteries of life, a gap that science will never be able to fill.The idea that a god creates everything feels more like moving the problem. The fact that you just have to believe that He always existed, and that he is a creature so advanced that he can create everything doensn't sound logical to me, but I guess the big bang doesn't sound logical to a religious person either.I find it easier to believe that an explosion suddenly started to exist than that a creature so advanced as a god suddenly started to exist and createdeverything. But it all comes to your point of view. There is now way to prove for the other parties that you are correct. Because there are hundreds of religions (let's just count science as one for now), the chance that you are fully correct is very small. That is why we should respect anyone who shooses an other religion as you.
It's impossible, it must have an origin. Nothing can be its own origine. Another point: believing in God is not like loto to play for chance.
There is very little, almost no evidence for evolution, and most of the published "evidence" is either fake or turns out to be something totally different than what they and not support the theory of evolution at all (or in some cases, actually refute it). On the other hand, there is overwhelming evidence for creation and God, which isn't fake, and has not been proven to be something else.Also, if there is a God, then there is proof that he is a Christian God. He has to be omnipotent, He has to be all-merciful, and He has to be all-Good. Nothing good can come from an evil creator.
Quote from: Scipi on May 22, 2013, 12:34:25 pmBecause you are at perfection, because you cannot go higher, happiness ends. Change ends, motion stops. There is nowhere left to go because of that. To me, this is a really bad thing because ope itself comes from the prospect of achieving such a reality. But once you reach is, there's nowhere for hope to come from anymore since there is no imperfection to overcome.And what if there's no time in paradise? All the problems you reach here disappear.
A God is a lot more plausible to me, since He doesn't have to bend to the rules of physics and therefore also doesn't have to be created.
There is very little, almost no evidence for evolution, and most of the published "evidence" is either fake or turns out to be something totally different than what they and not support the theory of evolution at all (or in some cases, actually refute it).
Also, if there is a God, then there is proof that he is a Christian God. He has to be omnipotent, He has to be all-merciful, and He has to be all-Good. Nothing good can come from an evil creator.
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