Author Topic: Religion Discussion  (Read 57760 times)

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Offline AssemblyBandit

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #150 on: October 01, 2013, 05:42:59 am »
I'm not going to take any approach on telling you which I am for, but one thing you need to understand is that everything we think is morally right or wrong, is just our perspective of it. Some other people/things/beings. Could find think of morals in an entirely different way, and it would be "right" for them, including letting people die. No one idea/perspective could or is right or wrong, and nothing/no one has the authority to make that choice.  ;)

I understand morals are relative but people don't have to die. The only one thing death is good for is evolution. If we were created by a god, death wouldn't exist.

Hm, I might post a whole rant on religion here. Here we go.

I have a pretty good theory about religion, I believe early civilisations made that up to answer unanswered questions. Science weren't there yet, and people couldn't really imagine something else than some guy creating everything, so better worship him. But, by nature, some people hated change, so when someone came up with science, people had difficulty accepting it... It got better in the recent history though. But nevertheless, I think religion is still part of everyday's life, like place names or funerals. The afterlife is not quite understood, what happens after death? Nothing? Pretty sure many would prefer believing there's something, that the soul of your loved one is at a better place, even if you know there's nothing. The memory of the dead lives as long as someone remembers them, after all.

Reminds me, almost two years ago, I got hospitalized for lung problems, I stayed there for 167 hours. Yeah, that was boring, but I had visits. And one of them was a priest. The hospital has a service where once a week, a priest would visit all the patients. He discussed with me, that was kinda cool. I realized, even though we are in a lay state here, they would still hire a priest, because people would find a priest very reconforting, especially when you're approaching death. Actually, it's pretty nice the hospital would send someone to visit you just for talking about stuff. They're there just for you.

Today, I would say I believe in God as much as I would believe in Princess Celestia or Madoka Kaname, all of them can teach you valuable life lessons you can follow. (Yes I'm comparing religion with fictional shows lol. If they weren't characters of TV shows I think they would make pretty good gods of some religion.) Just be careful in what you believe. It's up to you to decide what is right or wrong. Yes, the Bible may be full of contradictions, but it actually laid out the basis of modern civilisation and what we collectively assume as right or wrong, like killing people and stuff like that. We all agree killing people is bad, right? Or else maybe everyone would have guns and would liberally kill everyone else? I dunno, the impact religion had might be deeper than we thought.

And this is why, my friends, I still consider myself Catholic. I grew up Catholic and I understood what it meant to me.

Agreed and I was baptized Catholic too ;) but now I'm an Atheist ;D

@Art_of_camelot (below): I agree with that as well, I hate when people question if Atheists can have morals! I don't want to be killed so I don't go around killing other people! It's not rocket science!
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 05:48:55 am by AssemblyBandit »

Offline TIfanx1999

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #151 on: October 01, 2013, 05:43:28 am »
@Juju: You can look at killing as being bad without the religious aspect. If there is no after life, all we have is our time on this earth. That makes it much more precious. What right does anyone have to take away what little precious time we have? Essentially, I am saying morals can and do exist without religion.

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #152 on: October 01, 2013, 02:55:07 pm »
I'm not going to take any approach on telling you which I am for, but one thing you need to understand is that everything we think is morally right or wrong, is just our perspective of it. Some other people/things/beings. Could find think of morals in an entirely different way, and it would be "right" for them, including letting people die. No one idea/perspective could or is right or wrong, and nothing/no one has the authority to make that choice.  ;)

I understand morals are relative but people don't have to die. The only one thing death is good for is evolution. If we were created by a god, death wouldn't exist.

We don't (and honestly cannot) understand the true nature of death until we, ourselves, pass on. So for that, I would have to think might not be the case.

For instance, I believe that when a soul is created, there's nothing differentiating itself from other newly created souls.

Well, before I continue I'll define what I consider to be a soul. A soul would be a construct existing in a higher dimension that is composed of at least an observer object able to "view" the Universe in an abstract way as well as a drive for will power to act upon what is seen. The soul can possess other attributes as well, but is ultimately shaped by memory and experience.

Note that last part, I believe our souls exist on a higher plane with a much larger "view" of the Universe. However, between two different souls that view is largely similar. Memory and experience won't diverge a lot between souls, leading to a group of individuals with all the same opinions and ideas. This is not useful. So thus, in living in mortal bodies in the 4D, we experience drastically different views of the Universe and can come to much different conclusions. When we die, because our souls are shaped by memory, we keep these opinions an views with us.

This is something to consider if there is an afterlife. The afterlife would be where we spend the vast majority of our existence. It's basically like mortal life is similar to grade school and the afterlife is similar to our adult lives.

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Offline pimathbrainiac

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #153 on: October 01, 2013, 03:17:29 pm »
So, in AP World, we're discussing religions, and currently, Islam.

sooo... yeah, I hate being in the US because everybody in the class (except me, my teacher, and a few others) thinks that Muslim==Terrorist, but it's just not true.

First of all, at its core, the Koran, Islam is more tolerant of other religions than Judaism or Christianity, and believes that the Torah and the Bible are the word of god, as well as the Koran (they believe Jesus is a prophet, though). Does it follow Judaism or Christianity? No, but it does believe that they hold some truth. Also: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam were all started by descendants of Abraham, all believe in the same god (under different names) and all are based in the Middle East. Also also: Islam is the fastest growing and second largest religion in the world today. Why is that? Because, at its core, like almost all religions, it values helping others (you are supposed to donate at least 2.5% of your income to charity to help others). IT IS GOOD AS A RELIGION (still don't believe in any religions, but just saying that Islam is no better or worse than any others).

Now to address the whole "terrorists" stereotype: THERE ARE CHRISTIAN TERRORISTS TOO. We just don't hear about them in the US, or in most other predominately-christian countries. And the percentage of terrorist Muslims in relation to normal Muslims is extremely small, and is almost exactly the same percentage of terrorists in the world. What does this mean? Higher population of people in religion=more nut jobs, just because there are more people in said religion.

Interesting Fact: the biggest religious coexistence in the world is Turkey, where there is a 50/50 Muslim/Christian split, and THEY GET ALONG.

So... rant over. Don't hate on Muslims, okay?
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Offline Streetwalrus

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #154 on: October 01, 2013, 04:06:37 pm »
Well, I don't hate Muslims, but Islam has violent precepts at it's core. The reason why it's progressing so fast is because of that : Islam encourages the use of violence to spread itself. BTW if you look at terrorists then most of them are Islam fanatics.
Another thing is how they treat women. They consider that women are inferior to men and are here only for sex, reproduction and home tasks. While I don't consider women nor anybody else equal to me (we are all different and one of a kind), I believe that no hierarchy exists between human beings.
Another thing : the Hamas's slogan (one of many pro islamisation groups) is "We love death more than you love life". I think this is pretty much self explanatory.
One last thing : there are only a couple Nobel prices won by muslims. So the proportion of intelligent people adept of this religion is ridiculously low.

Now I hope that these arguments make you reconsider your opinion a bit and realize that Islam is not only good. There are good muslims but not all of them are and the Coran has two halves : the beginning of Mohammed's life which was good and the second part which was only war and blood.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 04:07:28 pm by Streetwalker »

Offline turiqwalrus

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #155 on: October 01, 2013, 06:40:06 pm »
One last thing : there are only a couple Nobel prices won by muslims. So the proportion of intelligent people adept of this religion is ridiculously low.
I'd have to argue on this point, though, considering that the muslim world, at large, is responsible for keepsafing pretty much all of what we know of ancient greece/rome today, and, of course, for algebra and arabic numerals.

Offline Juju

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #156 on: October 01, 2013, 06:53:29 pm »
Well, I don't hate Muslims, but Islam has violent precepts at it's core. The reason why it's progressing so fast is because of that : Islam encourages the use of violence to spread itself. BTW if you look at terrorists then most of them are Islam fanatics.
Another thing is how they treat women. They consider that women are inferior to men and are here only for sex, reproduction and home tasks. While I don't consider women nor anybody else equal to me (we are all different and one of a kind), I believe that no hierarchy exists between human beings.

Christianity used to be like that too. Also the groups you're talking about are extremists. I guess you could argue about how Muslims are the most extremist, but I believe Christianity also had its fair share of extremists. There's lots of examples of Christian terrorists as much as good Muslim people.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 06:58:43 pm by Juju »

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Offline Scipi

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #157 on: October 01, 2013, 07:26:34 pm »
Well, I don't hate Muslims, but Islam has violent precepts at it's core. The reason why it's progressing so fast is because of that : Islam encourages the use of violence to spread itself. BTW if you look at terrorists then most of them are Islam fanatics.
Another thing is how they treat women. They consider that women are inferior to men and are here only for sex, reproduction and home tasks. While I don't consider women nor anybody else equal to me (we are all different and one of a kind), I believe that no hierarchy exists between human beings.

Christianity used to be like that too. Also the groups you're talking about are extremists. I guess you could argue about how Muslims are the most extremist, but I believe Christianity also had its fair share of extremists. There's lots of examples of Christian terrorists as much as good Muslim people.

A thing to note here, Christianity has been more well known in the Western world for longer time. Islam has only recently started spreading and setting policy that would allow more people to see into their scripture and beliefs. For instance, it was only recently that the Koran was allowed to be translated outside of Arabic.

The Western world is equipped with a chisel. It's had a long time to wear down Christianity and smooth its rough edges, getting rid of a lot of the violent backwards aspects of the religion. Islam has not had that kind of exposure, and but now is in full view. Eventually the rough edges will be worn down.

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Late last night, Quebec was invaded by a group calling themselves, "Omnimaga". Not much is known about these mysterious people except that they all carried calculators of some kind and they all seemed to converge on one house in particular. Experts estimate that the combined power of their fabled calculators is greater than all the worlds super computers put together. The group seems to be holding out in the home of a certain DJ_O, who the Omnimagians claim to be their founder. Such power has put the world at a standstill with everyone waiting to see what the Omnimagians will do...

Wait... This just in, the Omnimagians have sent the UN a list of demands that must be met or else the world will be "submitted to the wrath of Netham45's Lobster Army". Such demands include >9001 crates of peanuts, sacrificial blue lobsters, and a wide assortment of cherry flavored items. With such computing power stored in the hands of such people, we can only hope these demands are met.

In the wake of these events, we can only ask, Why? Why do these people make these demands, what caused them to gather, and what are their future plans...

Offline AngelFish

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #158 on: October 01, 2013, 07:47:50 pm »
Well, I don't hate Muslims, but Islam has violent precepts at it's core. The reason why it's progressing so fast is because of that : Islam encourages the use of violence to spread itself.
...
One last thing : there are only a couple Nobel prices won by muslims. So the proportion of intelligent people adept of this religion is ridiculously low.

First of all, let's not turn this into a flame fest. Secondly...

a) Have you actually read the Qu'ran? It's quite a peaceful book on the whole. There are a lot of mentions of "infidels", but they're essentially defined as people who *attack* Islam. The book spends a lot of time clarifying that christians and followers of other abrahamic religions are not infidels in that sense, but merely those who have strayed from the path of God. Furthermore, the Bible itself is a religious text of Islam. Unless you want to argue that Judaism also has violent underpinnings, that's a pretty ridiculous argument to make.

b) You're calling everyone in the world's second largest religion unintelligent? Really? If I might make an alternate suggestion, perhaps the Nobel prizes don't measure the intelligence of social groups? Maybe they measure something else, like I don't know, the technological innovation of cultures?

c) Please don't use extremist organizations to define the core tenets of a religion. If you do continue to go down that route, note the Orange Volunteers, NLFT, LRA, KKK, Aleph, and Hutaree groups. Of course, this list is far from comprehensive and entirely ignores groups of other religions such as the Hindu Abhinav Bharat or the Buddhist "969 Movement".
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 08:44:38 pm by AngelFish »
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Offline pimathbrainiac

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #159 on: October 01, 2013, 08:42:19 pm »
Well, I don't hate Muslims, but Islam has violent precepts at it's core. The reason why it's progressing so fast is because of that : Islam encourages the use of violence to spread itself. BTW if you look at terrorists then most of them are Islam fanatics.
Another thing is how they treat women. They consider that women are inferior to men and are here only for sex, reproduction and home tasks. While I don't consider women nor anybody else equal to me (we are all different and one of a kind), I believe that no hierarchy exists between human beings.
Another thing : the Hamas's slogan (one of many pro islamisation groups) is "We love death more than you love life". I think this is pretty much self explanatory.
One last thing : there are only a couple Nobel prices won by muslims. So the proportion of intelligent people adept of this religion is ridiculously low.

First of all: no. the Koran does not have any of that stuff, it's the Sharia (or a version thereof), but it's not what you think...

The Sharia is supposedly a book of Mohammad quotes, and in some sects (and countries), it is followed as law. The book contains quotes and who said that quote to whom before it was written down. The fewer people in that chain, the stronger and more reliable it is. The "killing non-Muslims" thing has A LOT of people in its chain.

That said, in the Koran, it DOES endorse a holy war, or Jihad, but this has already happened, as in the Crusades.
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Offline TIfanx1999

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #160 on: October 01, 2013, 09:08:26 pm »
PImath and AngelFish: ++

Remember that Christianity doesn't have a spotless record either. Remember the Crusades? Yea... People tend to do stupid things in the name of religion. Those with power use religion to bend people to their own purposes.

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #161 on: October 01, 2013, 09:59:36 pm »
Well, I don't hate Muslims, but Islam has violent precepts at it's core. The reason why it's progressing so fast is because of that : Islam encourages the use of violence to spread itself. BTW if you look at terrorists then most of them are Islam fanatics.
Another thing is how they treat women. They consider that women are inferior to men and are here only for sex, reproduction and home tasks. While I don't consider women nor anybody else equal to me (we are all different and one of a kind), I believe that no hierarchy exists between human beings.

Christianity used to be like that too. Also the groups you're talking about are extremists. I guess you could argue about how Muslims are the most extremist, but I believe Christianity also had its fair share of extremists. There's lots of examples of Christian terrorists as much as good Muslim people.
There are also atheist extremists. They exist in every category of groups (even TI-8x ASM and BASIC coders in the late 90's).
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 12:05:25 am by DJ Omnimaga »

Offline AssemblyBandit

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #162 on: October 01, 2013, 11:31:42 pm »
I'm pretty sure alot of muslims are terrorists. I think I saw one today, he looked like a terrorist to me, and it looked like he mouthed the word 'bomb'.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 12:21:37 am by AssemblyBandit »

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #163 on: October 02, 2013, 12:01:09 am »
I hope that you are joking lol. There are plenty of muslims living around here and none seems to have any suspectful behavior. Actually the only issue we seem to have over here is that a small minority of them tries to force their culture on us, trying to demand special treatment and laws based on religious motives. For example, the ability to vote at elections without uncovering their face, forcing shopping malls to remove all Christmas decorations, being allowed to carry a kirpan (some knife) at school, etc. If we start giving special treatments to them, then they'll have to change laws so that every kid are allowed to bring killing knives or swords in class, as well as being able to vote with an anonymous mask.

I think it all depends of how much into religion (or lack thereof) someone is, in which case we can have cases of extremism. Even then, it depends if they interpret their religion properly or not (eg terrorists aren't really muslim but some modified form of it that promotes killing non-believers and America) or political reasons (eg the English Quebecer man who tried to murder the new Prime Minister of Quebec last year after electrions had ended, because the new PM was separatist).
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 12:04:11 am by DJ Omnimaga »

Offline AssemblyBandit

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Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #164 on: October 02, 2013, 12:27:25 am »
Ha Ha! Yeah, just playing on the ignorance of americans! That's probably a pretty good portrayal, except for the TSA who would let Bin Laden hop right on a plane, but pat me down until their hands went numb!