Author Topic: Where did leofox go? (Read 7034 times)

leofox · « **on:** August 26, 2006, 12:43:00 pm »

Dear Omnimaga,

I know i haven't been posting on the forums, but most of you will know me, either from the IRC channel #omnimaga or from other forums like MaxCoderz or UnitedTI.
If you have been visiting the latter lately, you might have seen this topic: http://www.unitedti.org/index.php?showtopic=5597. I just want to tell my side of the story.

On the late afternoon of friday the 25th, it began with Toksyuryel, a member of the #Unitedti IRC channel, saying to Dantes (the_unknown_one) in not so many words that he didn't have the right to stick Plushie in his nickname, because it was something special for Telroth that he doesn't understand. This had me kinda confused, i thought that he was a furry. I that day was especially mad at the furries, because in my opinion they are the reason that 4chan's /b/ died, one of my favourite forums for driving away boredom.
So anyway, Dantes(the_unknown_one) said that he liked plushie things too, like stuffed animals. I replied with something like "yeah me too, but i don't put my d*** in them". My first offense.

Toksyuryel kicked me for that one. I was pretty pissed at him for that, he said some stuff at me, started being stuck up like he was the only one who knew what telroth wanted and kicking me every line, like he was better than me. That made me even more angry and i said a 4chan phrase "yiff in hell furfags". Yiff is a slang term for furry sex, the rest you can make up yourself. Not smart to say in an otherkin based network amirite...
Now remember, i'm an op at #UnitedTI too, i was it all the time during that stuff (just sometimes they took it away but hopping would get it back). I could've used the kickban all the time, but i didn't want to. But man was i tempted.

After that i had some dinner, and i watched snakes on a plane on my computer. I had a couple of beers and some Martini (good stuff ^_^) so i wasn't completely at my senses. I was tired too because it was late. When i came back it was normal for a while, i was a bit rude against SQLdemon a few times, but that was just because i didn't know that he was AlienCC. I remember that when i whois'd him and found out that he was AlienCC, i was a bit shocked, because i said some rude things.

But after a while the issue came back, Toksyuryel was rude again and everyone seemed to be at his side. I tried to be funny a few times but that only made it worse. AlienCC was preaching at me (i hate it when ppl do that, was does he have to say about my life?) but after a while it was alright. At least that's what i thought.

We had a pretty reasonable discussion on otherkin, i got some explanations on the Plushie thing. But after a while things got out of hand again when i posted "animal sex is illegal in most countries" as a reply. AlienCC kicked me again, i was kinda confused because i didn't think that was bad of me to post. Later i heard that he doesn't want us to post bad words in the chan because when his boss walks past and sees bad words on his screen he'd be in trouble or w/e. For me that sounds very hypocritic. If you don't want to be in trouble for being on IRC during work, don't be on IRC during work. Common sense, do you use it?! Instead, i got in trouble again and i became angry again.

I did some pretty bad stuff i suppose, posted yiff in hell again and stuff. Later i heard that AlienCC had me banned 21 days not only from the channel, something i can understand though 3 weeks is a bit long, but from the UTI forums too. I did nothing bad there did I?! I am one of the most active community members still, i was one of the few to get a paid subscription, i submitted popular files and i participate in contests. Apparently this is how Jon treats his members.

Today i found out that he made a topic about me, which i couldn't watch because i was banned. He and other people were just talking bad around my back about me, and not allowing me to talk back or even see it. Can you imagine how that feels? I spent a few minutes trying to get a good proxy, and i read the topic. There i saw that AlienCC made all the logs public, gave his side of the story without letting me speak etc. Some people were behind me, i was very happy to see Xlibman and some other members sticking it up for me. But other members got angry at me too, even those that weren't even there.
So basically, AlienCC wrecked my reputation in the community without even letting me speak for myself, gave me an unreasonable ban, for something i did only one evening. Everyone has a bad day sometimes don't they?

This is why i won't come back to United-TI. I'll be posting here or at MaxCoderz sometimes for help at my latest secret project, but you can understand why i can't go back to UTI anymore.

This is my side of the story, i hope it makes you understand the situation more. I regret what i did a lot, but i don't think it's comparable to my punishment.

--Leofox

DJ Omnimaga · « **Reply #1 on:** August 26, 2006, 02:01:00 pm »

First of all, while leofox may have done bad yesterday, I do NOT HOLD ANY GRUDGES TOWARD HIM, and I agree with rezek.

I've actually had a discussion with leofox about this earlier, he told me what happened and such. However I've taken time to read the logs as well to get both version of the facts. I will do my point, and only once, I dont want to tell leofox and the mod what to do, it is only my point of view. I do not want this to end up in an argument, but I often have different opinion from other people and I fear it might, but please see this only as my point of view and please read my entire post carefully to avoid misunderstood.

First leofox did bad in the IRC channel, especially insulting Tok. He got told to stop, and continued. So the 21 day IRC ban was deserved. However I do not recall any TOS infrigment on the forums. Imho I feel the forum ban is unjustified and while a ban may have been deserved it should not be as long as on the IRC channel. 1 day at the least, and 7 at the top, if not No ban at all on the forums. If the incident would have happened on the forums, and not on IRC, then it would be vice versa. I feel it is unfair as Drak has been permbanned from the forums and he can still go in the IRC channel, while leofox cannot go on both. That said, will NOT hold ANY grudge against leofox for what he did

first of all I've never seen leofox doing something like this before, ever. I fear he may be going through some sort depression, I dunno if he is, but thats a possibility, because I remember him feeling down not so long ago right before he went in vacation in france and I am kinda worried about him right now.

second of all Toks started it with the plushie thing. Was starting that argument about plushie nickname and bandwagooning necessary at all? maybe this would have avoided this from happening? Leofox told me he went mad at that point, and while I think what he did was uncalled for i dont think he would have done this if toks didnt started harrasing leofox and Dantes about that bandwagooning thing. Is there any IRC rules that state that it is prohibited to use the _Plushie suffix in your nickname without permission? No, so I dont see why this argument that triggered all those event and this ban was necessary at all.

Third of all: this topic was totally unnecessary at all. Is this necessary to ternish leofox reputation toward EVERY single visitor who are gonna read this topic? This stuff should have been kept on IRC, and if leofox had any staff/forum privileges then just post a news saying he has been demoted for TOS violation. This topic doesnt deserves to exist at all. What if leofox want to apologise for what he did? What if he want his reputation to be good again, by not doing this again? Everyone has the right for a second chance, and to apologise. He's gonna have this right after the ban expires, but this topic is NOT gonna help^ at all. Everyone do mistakes anyway and they learn from them. Leofox will (I hope) learn (or alerady learned) a lesson from this, and no one should be holding any grudge against him, and everyone who were not nice to him should apologise afterward. I do not know if he will come back here, and it is his choice to come back or not, but if he come back, there should not be any hatering toward him. Personally i was not involved in this event, and as leofox has been nice with me in overall I will not hold any grudge against him at all, and as I am a bit agaisnt the actions taken against him, I will continue to support him til the end. As he got banned and cannot see this topic I will try to help him understand what he did bad while I think both parties are wrong, and I know he will understand. I do not like seeing fights like this in the community as this is making me very upset

anyway I just wanted to make a point, and I hope you realise that both parties are not fully right, but you are entitled to your own opinion, and I hope leofox realised I still respect him, providing he won't do this again

Note: this is the same post than what I posted on UTI in the topic, I'm sorry to see things went this way, I hope you enjoy your stay here and at MaxCoderz. Btw sry for becoming upset all the time for small reasons on IRC

elfprince13 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 26, 2006, 03:20:00 pm »

personally I hope you come back to UTI leofox, *most* of the time you seem to be a great guy, and while you screwed up, most of us want you back.

unfortunately you did violate the forum TOS (on IRC...), but still, 21 days is too long a ban for 1 incident after that many years of you being an active member. UTI (most of us anyway) will miss you if you choose to stay away.

Darth Android · « **Reply #3 on:** August 26, 2006, 03:32:00 pm »

I have several things to say.

QuoteBegin-leofox+-->

QUOTE (leofox)

it began with Toksyuryel, a member of the #Unitedti IRC channel, saying to Dantes (the_unknown_one) in not so many words that he didn't have the right to stick Plushie in his nickname, because it was something special for Telroth that he doesn't understand.

First, while Toksyuryel may have spoke on my behalf, he had no right to, whereas people do have a right to put plushie on their nicknames. My whole point i was trying to make about plushies it that it does vary from person to person on what it means to them, and you can't just assume that because they have |Plushie on their name that it means any specific things.

QuoteBegin-leofox+

-->

QUOTE (leofox)

I replied with something like "yeah me too, but i don't put my d*** in them". My first offense.

The problem was the general assumption that all furries or everyone with |Plushie did this (your comment implied this assumption). There are some people who do this, but being a furry or a plushie or having |Plushie in your nickname has nothing to do with it. If anyone's ever had a teddy bear, then they've like plushies too before. That's usually what "I like plushies" means.
QuoteBegin-leofox+

-->

QUOTE (leofox)

That made me even more angry and i said a 4chan phrase "yiff in hell furfags". Yiff is a slang term for furry sex, the rest you can make up yourself. Not smart to say in an otherkin based network amirite...

FYI it yiffing mean that or cybering in general. And it's not that there's a lot of otherkin on the server that are specifically taking offence to this. Yiffing or not, you did tell everyone to go to hell, which I can see others getting angry at.
QuoteBegin-leofox+

-->

QUOTE (leofox)

But after a while things got out of hand again when i posted "animal sex is illegal in most countries" as a reply. AlienCC kicked me again, i was kinda confused because i didn't think that was bad of me to post. Later i heard that he doesn't want us to post bad words in the chan because when his boss walks past and sees bad words on his screen he'd be in trouble or w/e. For me that sounds very hypocritic.

I wasn't using AlienCC as a specific example, but the work scenario as an example in general.

To the above three quotes: The biggest offence was the language. I am usually pretty lax on language on the server, but the problem is UTI is a specific draw to children a young as 12 (that's 7th grade, when my school starts offering algebra for which we have to get a graphic calc). There is no way for us to monitor the people entering to make sure their parents allow them to visit the site or what their ages are. This means we have to keep the channel clean at all times. The beauty of IRC is there are 40^32 different channels, and As long as you are the owner of a channel and aren't breaking the server rules, you can do whatever you want. My goal was not to prevent the discussion from happening, but to prevent it from happening in #unitedti.

QuoteBegin-xlibman+

-->

QUOTE (xlibman)

second of all Toks started it with the plushie thing. Was starting that argument about plushie nickname and bandwagooning necessary at all? maybe this would have avoided this from happening?

Who started it doesn't matter, and never does in any situation. People should have enough maturity to know when to end it.

QuoteBegin-xlibman+

-->

QUOTE (xlibman)

i dont think he would have done this if toks didnt started harrasing leofox and Dantes about that bandwagooning thing. Is there any IRC rules that state that it is prohibited to use the _Plushie suffix in your nickname without permission?

Harassing is against the rules, and if Toks was harassing them then they should have alerted me or Iambian asap.

QuoteBegin-xlibman+

-->

QUOTE (xlibman)

I am a bit agaisnt the actions taken against him

A bit? I'd say you are strongly against, as am I.

QuoteBegin-xlibman+

-->

QUOTE (xlibman)

I think both parties are wrong, and I know he will understand. I do not like seeing fights like this in the community as this is making me very upset

I fully agree. I let AlienCC know I fully agree. In fact, looking back on the conversation, I attacked him pretty hard, despite that not being my intention.

QuoteBegin-xlibman+

-->

QUOTE (xlibman)

I will not hold any grudge against him at all

You seem to overstate your point of not holding a grudge. I'll personally hold a grudge against anyone who holds one against Leofox OR AlienCC. Honestly, we're all human, we all make mistakes.

QuoteBegin-leofox+

-->

QUOTE (leofox)

but you can understand why i can't go back to UTI anymore.

Actually, I don't. You were punished unfairly by one of the admins, not by the entire community there. I personally would hate to see you leave. UTI isn't the admins, it's the community the admins are supposed to protect.

threefingeredguy · « **Reply #4 on:** August 26, 2006, 04:06:00 pm »

Nobody likes Toksyurel anyway.

NETWiz · « **Reply #5 on:** August 26, 2006, 06:37:00 pm »

To All Whom it May Concern:

We at United-TI regret every having to ban anyone who is a part of our community. As a matter of fact, Leofox was almost chosen as a UTI-STAFF member at one time. With that in mind, Leofox has always been a very active member, with a positive attitude, and a great deal of seniority. We like having Leofox on our team.
The problem begun with Leofox saying things like, ?yeah me too, but I don?t put my *** in them?? and ?yiff in hell.? We quite simply cannot have this type of chat on United-TI or anywhere on the forums because our audience is Children, Teenagers, Students, Teachers, and Parents. It is most definite an attack against someone in a sexual manner and highly against our rules. With that said, we can understand that Leofox got upset about the kicks and later the ban. This was an attempt to let him know he had crossed the line and request he walk back over to the right side. Perhaps this situation was handled wrong on our behalf. Maybe we should try contacting the individual in the future.
To everyone at #unitedti, if kicked consider it a severe warning, but don?t get angry. Just re-join immediately and correct the behavior problem. Kicking is just to show the severity of the problem. I too have been kicked and banned before in a different IRC chartroom, so I know how it makes you feel. I was angry when I got kicked in a different room and I was later banned. I was beyond angry, but reflecting upon it makes me think how it was my fault.
As for being mad, angry, drunk, and tired, we do not care provided you maintain the highest level of deportment in the United-TI venue. We will not accept any of the above excuses as a valid reason to break our rules or attack another member. As far as not knowing that SQLdemon was AlienCC, it does not matter either because we will not tolerate this lack of respect against anyone on the forum or on #unitedti regardless of who they are.
With the admission of doing bad stuff, you have already taken the first step towards behavior modification. The United-TI community tends to agree that 21 days is a long time, but the #unitedti administrators do it to send a message to everyone and be strict. Please do not take it personally. The community also agrees that you did nothing wrong on the UTI forums and that you are a very active member with a paid subscription. For these things, you are appreciated and looked up upon by many. I have already removed the IP ban, so you no longer need a proxy to view the website. That was just silly on my part really. If you do come back to United-TI, we will extend your paid subscription for every day you were banned. Jon has also moved the topic into a forum only accessible to UTI-STAFF.
In my personal dealings with AlienCC, I realize he is a very easy-going and understanding guy. I have had the honor of working with him for a very long time and he is a very large part of United-TI. He is very talented and busy person in all aspects of life. He still manages to do the daunting and insurmountable tasks. All I should say is that he is under a great deal of stress working on a large project and in college doing more units that most students. AlienCC is actually taking about 3 calender-weeks off for College and to work on a large project. Everybody, please wish him luck.
United-TI has a good set of checks and balances that sometimes take a great deal of time to work. All I can say is that with AlienCC taking some time off I will be arbitrating this situation. We all need to take 100% responsibility for our actions, so I think deep down inside you and I both know what we each have to do. I am going to PM you privately on this forum. I have almost nothing at all to do with the #unitedti IRC chartroom. I am only given +oa out of respect quite honestly just like David L. is the highest level UTI Staff and always will be out of respect. With that said, AlienCC deserves the utmost respect in regards to United-TI.
The entire United-TI community would hate to see you leave forever as we all (AlienCC) consider the matter (including #unitedti) closed and after 21 days. We all just want to forget and move on with other more important matters such as the United-TI upgrades planned in the near future. I will personally admit that this whole situation got blown out of hand by the United-TI administration including myself who banned Leofox in the forums. Regardless, I am sending a PM now in an effort to resolve settle this dispute quicker.
It is obviously your choice whether or not you want to come back, but speaking personally, I will miss you if you leave us.
Thank you for your time.
-NETWiz

spengo · « **Reply #6 on:** August 26, 2006, 08:19:00 pm »

I read about 80% of leofox's post, then looked down and saw a bunch more posts just as long.

Anyways all I can say is say sorry and make up with pplz and try to get everyone happy again. Obviously it wasn't all one person's fault, but the question remains who will be the most mature dude and make up first.

leofox · « **Reply #7 on:** August 27, 2006, 12:19:00 am »

Thanks for all the support, I really appreciate it. but i'm still taking a time out from UTI until i think i can leave this stuff behind me.

QuoteBegin-netwiz+-->

QUOTE (netwiz)

As for being mad, angry, drunk, and tired

I was never saying that as an excuse. I should've just left the channel and go to sleep, instead of arguing with everyone 'til 3 AM.

QuoteBegin

-->

QUOTE

Actually, I don't. You were punished unfairly by one of the admins, not by the entire community there. I personally would hate to see you leave. UTI isn't the admins, it's the community the admins are supposed to protect.

Jon isn't just an admin, he maintains the server and spends a lot of free time and money on UTI. It's very hard to not take notice of him.

DJ Omnimaga · « **Reply #8 on:** August 27, 2006, 01:48:00 am »

Leofox is upset at what happened, which is why he doesnt want to come back. Personally I can understadn his decision, maybe he will reconsider later, we dunno. Personally I am not coming back anymore, I scrambled my password on their forums and my email address to prevent myself from logging in and posting angry stuff if another argument start here. Personally I think UTI changed in overall in the past months. It seems some people are more hateful or rude over here, and I dunno why. Arguments starts more often and when a new ppl ask a question because the others are tired of awnsering similar questions all the time they take all their anger on the newbies, which isnt good at all. If I left MaxCoderz thats for the exact same reasons and if UTI is gonna become like MaxCoderz I dont see why I would come back. That kind of stuff does no good to me anyway.

Note that I still respect all the hard work put in UnitedTI community and I am amazed by how it became successful, my leaving is just to protect myself and the others, as I tend to have very serious self control problems and when I see a small argument I go overboard

katmaster · « **Reply #9 on:** August 27, 2006, 03:39:00 am »

On the contrary, I think that UTI is just trying to protect their members from getting their feelings hurt or becoming offended. While they may have gone overboard with the whole 3 week ban, I do think there has to be some action taken, to ensure stuff like this doesn't happen again. And I doubt anyone holds a grudge. They just want to ensure that their forums don't fall apart. I say, forgive and forget.

Zeromus · « **Reply #10 on:** August 27, 2006, 07:35:00 am »

QuoteBegin-"threefingeredguy"+-->

QUOTE ("threefingeredguy")

Nobody likes Toksyurel anyway.

I rather enjoy >90% of the conversations I have with Toksy. By saying that you are implying that I don't like him? That isn't exactally right.

--==--

On a related note, this will probably be my last post here on the forums. I have been asked nicely to leave the forums, the channel, and not PM/Msg xlibman again in the future. I am sorry for anyone that only comes here and still looks forward to my posts and me being in the channel (someone has to mod there, I popped in and there where 3 unvoiced members that needed voice! ^.^) but since he asked me I will comply.

--==--

@ leofox. While I do not agree with what you did in the chan, I also do not agree with what AlienCC did. Though I can see his point in what he did, it was a bit severe. I probably would have done the same thing thought (I was a good deal offended that night) and honestally I am sotty one of the mods there (including myself) didn't remove you from the channel sooner to avoid this mess.

katmaster · « **Reply #11 on:** August 27, 2006, 01:00:00 pm »

.......not you too, CDI

DJ Omnimaga · « **Reply #12 on:** August 27, 2006, 02:10:00 pm »

well the matter got solved on IRC a few hours ago, I've done bad and I went mad at CDI and I am sorry about this

he will be back

elfprince13 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 27, 2006, 02:24:00 pm »

:|

what happened?

Darth Android · « **Reply #14 on:** August 28, 2006, 01:20:00 am »

"Let sleeping dogs lie." @ elfprince. Most of what happens with xlibman is said out of anger and he usually doesn't mean what he says. He doesn't like going into details because that brings back memories of the situation for him, which he often would rather just forget and move on.

Author Topic: Where did leofox go? (Read 7034 times)

leofox

elfprince13

threefingeredguy

NETWiz

spengo

leofox

katmaster

Zeromus

katmaster

elfprince13