Quote from: Builderboy on November 23, 2010, 02:02:45 pm

I guess the question boils down to is this:  you said you got apps through questionable methods, did you get them for free while you would have to pay for them normally?

Yup. That's good question too: if it's some banned applications whuch Apple just does not like for one reason or another - it's one thing, if it's programs which are distributed against author's wishes - it's another thing.

Well my point being that while i do not think jailbreaking your iphone is wrong, or that apple has a right to deny jailbreaking, i do think getting paid apps for free is wrong, and that apple has the right to delete any apps they detect have been dowloaded illegally.

Likening this to TI, i do not think it is wrong to hack our devices so that we can run any software we want, and i think its wrong for them to try to prevent us from doing so.  But i do think it is wrong if we distribute some of TI's own software for free, and that TI would have the right to delete the software if they caught us.

EDIT: I might also point out that Apple is not the only one benefiting from sales on the App Store.  If i wanted to, i could develop games for the iphone, and distribute them for a living.  I would also be a bit upset if i failed to make very much money because people were downloading my apps illegally

Quote from: graphmastur on November 23, 2010, 01:24:14 pm

Now hold up, companies aren't always "big and greedy".

Yes, they are.

Quote from: graphmastur on November 23, 2010, 01:24:14 pm

They have reasons for their decisions.  Think of it this way, DJ. as an admin, you make choices that affect this site. Because it is your site, you want it to do well. That is your motivation for keeping things out that you consider detrimental to your site. It's the same with companies.

Sure. They can do whatever they want. They can even ask me to obey some rules if I want to use their site. But WTF they pretend they have right to dictate what I do in my home? I've bought the TI-Nspire and fb39ca4 bought the iPad. I have an invoice. It's mine. Why do they have the need to try to criplle the thing they no longer own? It's as stupid and immoral as the futile try of DJ to dictate what I should write in my love letters. There are few noble reasons for that (think spyware removal tools), but then main reason to do that is: to try to extort more money from me. This is greed - not noble at all. When PlayStation3 forces me to buy new controller to play online - that's greed, when TI forces me to spend money for Nspire CAS and closes the way for third-party developers to develop CAS package - that's greed, when Motorola says "no more updates for you, buy own new model" - that's greed too.

All companies start small and helful and become increasingly hostile and harmful with time because of the greed. But there are different degrees. When Intel refuses to give nVidia right to sell chipsets - it's one thing, it's greed and it's bad thing, but it does not affect me directly, but when Apple or SONY or Texas Instruments decide to say what I can and can not do in my own home - that's just over the top.

Quote from: Builderboy on November 23, 2010, 02:02:45 pm

I guess the question boils down to is this:  you said you got apps through questionable methods, did you get them for free while you would have to pay for them normally?

Yup. That's good question too: if it's some banned applications whuch Apple just does not like for one reason or another - it's one thing, if it's programs which are distributed against author's wishes - it's another thing.

But the end result is the same: people are trained to guard their property and reject upgrades when in doubt.

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on November 23, 2010, 01:12:59 pm

Include Texas Instruments in the list above too. They added an anti-downgrade protection in TI-Nspire OS 2.1, because OS 1.1 and 1.7 allowed ASM/C programs to be ran.

http://ourl.ca/6358

Hmm... The link above says that you still can use OS 1.7 after upgrade, only 1.1 is disallowed. And OS 2.1 has some new features too. Compare this behaviour with Microsoft, SONY, or Nintendo: these companies published upgrades which had one and one goal only: to cripple your lawfully-owned device.

What calcforth said. If I buy a iPod Touch, I should be allowed to do whatever I want with it at home, as long as I'm not stealing anything. Example: If I'm developing a 3rd party game for it and I need to jailbreak it.

As for the OS 2.1 link, I guess you're right, I got confused with 2.0 for a second. X.x

That said, in the case of Omnimaga site, I can decide what is allowed on it and what not, though, since it is kinda like Omnimaga territory, not yours. Basically, if someone decides to attempt starting a flame war with Java or Python users, I can warn the user in question, because I'm trying to keep the site friendly. I can even ban troublemakers or haters. This is why the site has sets of rules to respect when you arrive on it. However, I have no right to go on your own website and tell you what to write in your posts.

Yeah that's why I think. I am sure it's also to prevent people from writing better apps available for free, though.

Ya know, I think it would be awesome if apple made a kernel so you could essentially make your own os, but they would immediately lose all control over it.  There would be iphone viruses, and it would be bad.  Which makes me wonder how "open" we should be with OTCalc. </slightly offtopic>

They are not forced to charge money, they can make it charge whatever they want ^^ you do have to pay for the SDK though

Well you don't necessarily need to have a jailbroken iphone to write apps for free, anybody anywhere can write apps for the iphone provided they have the iphone SDK, and they can charge whatever they want for their apps

Does not work this way. When you download the SDK you register your own iPhone with Apple and then program compiled with SDK can be run on that phone and only on that phone. You can not distribute it.

They are not forced to charge money, they can make it charge whatever they want ^^ you do have to pay for the SDK though

Actually it's free - but it only works with MacOS. The problem here is not cost, it's question of control. The SDK is free, but you can not distribute programs developed with it except via AppStore and Apple keeps the right to kick anything from it at any time. Basically you are Apple slave and Apple decides if you projects lives or dies.

You have to pay $99 dollars to be able to put your app in the store, but not to get the SDK.  You can charge $X.99 where X is pretty much anything, or you could charge nothing at all.  Apple takes, IIRC, %20 percent for each purchase.

Not entirely correct. While text of agrement is not publically accessible (which is outrageous by itself since it affects so many people) the "Apple cut" is well-known: 30%.

I was looking up a way to develop on windows, its called winChain, but it requires a 500MB prebuilt toolchain, which is apparently copyrighted, because it was not hosted on google code, but on bittorrent.

Quote from: Builderboy on November 23, 2010, 04:16:03 pm

They are not forced to charge money, they can make it charge whatever they want ^^ you do have to pay for the SDK though

Actually it's free - but it only works with MacOS. The problem here is not cost, it's question of control. The SDK is free, but you can not distribute programs developed with it except via AppStore and Apple keeps the right to kick anything from it at any time. Basically you are Apple slave and Apple decides if you projects lives or dies.

Ew this sucks. Basically, if I decide to develop apps for the Iphone, I need to pay myself a new computer OS? I sure hope it's possible to install Mac OS on any computer, now, not just their overpriced machines, otherwise I would be surprised if a lot of people developed apps distributed for free. X.x

Personally, I have no plan to develop apps for iPhone. I would rather prefer developing for a more open device or the computer. Right now I have no plan to do so, though, so I'm sticking to my good ol' 83+ calculator.

winChain is apparently not updated frequently enough. But it can work. The best way that I know would be DragonFire SDK, but that costs $99

Is that in any way affiliated with the now-defunct IRC network and programming team that used to host United-TI IRC channel? They were called Dragon-Fire Programming.