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Author Topic: Will Lua erase the need for Ndless?  (Read 23363 times)

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Offline Munchor

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Re: Will Lua erase the need for Ndless?
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2011, 12:31:37 pm »
Quote from: pianoman on June 05, 2011, 12:30:57 pm
Quote from: Scout on June 05, 2011, 12:29:57 pm
Quote from: pianoman on June 05, 2011, 12:28:39 pm
Whoops, it appears i got triple ninja'd. I was agreeing with Spyro.

But as Lionel Debrouxl said and correctly, they'll never remove Lua. Do you still not want ARM?
What's ARM?
Please forgive my noobiness. :P

ARM is the name of Assembly (and I'm also including C now) for the NSpire processor.
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Offline pianoman

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Re: Will Lua erase the need for Ndless?
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2011, 12:33:29 pm »
Quote from: Scout on June 05, 2011, 12:31:37 pm
Quote from: pianoman on June 05, 2011, 12:30:57 pm
Quote from: Scout on June 05, 2011, 12:29:57 pm
Quote from: pianoman on June 05, 2011, 12:28:39 pm
Whoops, it appears i got triple ninja'd. I was agreeing with Spyro.

But as Lionel Debrouxl said and correctly, they'll never remove Lua. Do you still not want ARM?
What's ARM?
Please forgive my noobiness. :P

ARM is the name of Assembly (and I'm also including C now) for the NSpire processor.
What can you do with it that Lua can't do?
Although, I have to admit, Lionel has a good point with the teachers getting warm to the possibilities of Lua.
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Offline Lionel Debroux

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Re: Will Lua erase the need for Ndless?
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2011, 12:36:02 pm »
pianoman: for some instances of the things Lua can't do, but native code could, see posts by thepenguin77, Deep Thought and Scout, earlier in the topic :)
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Offline pianoman

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Re: Will Lua erase the need for Ndless?
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2011, 12:38:26 pm »
Ah. I see your point.
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Offline ruler501

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Re: Will Lua erase the need for Ndless?
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2011, 12:39:40 pm »
Quote from: pianoman on June 05, 2011, 12:33:29 pm
Quote from: Scout on June 05, 2011, 12:31:37 pm
Quote from: pianoman on June 05, 2011, 12:30:57 pm
Quote from: Scout on June 05, 2011, 12:29:57 pm
Quote from: pianoman on June 05, 2011, 12:28:39 pm
Whoops, it appears i got triple ninja'd. I was agreeing with Spyro.

But as Lionel Debrouxl said and correctly, they'll never remove Lua. Do you still not want ARM?
What's ARM?
Please forgive my noobiness. :P

ARM is the name of Assembly (and I'm also including C now) for the NSpire processor.
What can you do with it that Lua can't do?
Although, I have to admit, Lionel has a good point with the teachers getting warm to the possibilities of Lua.
Speed is a lot less. YOu can not run other programs from it(at least I don'tthink so),
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Offline Munchor

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Re: Will Lua erase the need for Ndless?
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2011, 12:42:26 pm »
  • Full Screen Applications
  • Total control of the calculator with code
  • Much faster

These are just some of them.
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Offline calc84maniac

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Re: Will Lua erase the need for Ndless?
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2011, 01:03:36 pm »
Short answer: No.

Long answer: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Real answer: Lua really isn't as fast as C/ASM, and I love to program in ARM assembly. You won't be getting your GBC emulator in real color on the CX without Ndless, or any of the other awesome stuff that could be possible with full control of the hardware (like nDoom for example)
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Offline AngelFish

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Re: Will Lua erase the need for Ndless?
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2011, 03:04:31 pm »
I don't mean to prolong the beating of this horse, but I just want to throw in this analogy:

Look at modern computers. Interpreters are bloody fast nowadays, with advanced JIT compilation and other optimization techniques. In some specialized cases, they can even beat compiled code for speed. They're also not limited in their functions, since pretty much anything that can be written in a compiled language can also be done in an interpreted one. However, people still use compiled code for many things. You're not going to write Crysis in Java (Minecraft is already pushing the limits). Some programs are simply too advanced for interpreters and also, sandboxing means that anything that has to interface with the OS in ways that weren't intended has to be compiled or assembled.
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Will Lua erase the need for Ndless?
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2011, 03:08:38 pm »
An interpreter, in most cases, especially if made by TI, will never achieve ASM/C performance on the identical same platform. You will never see nDoom, Ocarina of Time port or even a GB emulator in Lua. In fact, I heard that even smooth scrolling tilemaps were impossible.
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Offline Hot_Dog

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Re: Will Lua erase the need for Ndless?
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2011, 03:37:45 pm »
Huh, I don't know why I thought Lua was pre-compiled--maybe it's because of how much faster it is than Ti-Basic
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Will Lua erase the need for Ndless?
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2011, 03:40:59 pm »
Maybe. A lot of games look ASM-like. THe reason why it's so fast is because the calc uses a CPU over 100 MHz, while on the 83+ you got a 6 MHz one.
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Offline apcalc

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Re: Will Lua erase the need for Ndless?
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2011, 06:32:38 pm »
As stated by others, I highly doubt that Lua will replace the need for C.  Although it is a wonderful addition to the Nspire, Lua is still limited in its functions, unlike the endless possibilities of Ndless! :)
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Ashbad

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Re: Will Lua erase the need for Ndless?
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2011, 07:07:51 pm »
Quote from: calc84maniac on June 05, 2011, 01:03:36 pm
Short answer: No.

Long answer: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Real answer: Lua really isn't as fast as C/ASM, and I love to program in ARM assembly. You won't be getting your GBC emulator in real color on the CX without Ndless, or any of the other awesome stuff that could be possible with full control of the hardware (like nDoom for example)

My answer:

NO.


But seriously, Lua is a great language, but it's pretty impossible to compare it to C or Assembly -- they're entirely different and should never be used in the same sentence unless you're embedding Lua code in C or making a C compiler in Lua.  Lua is many, many times slower than C; Lua is functional, C is procedural; Lua is interpreted, C is compiled; Lua is usually used for simple scripting, C is usually used for stand-alone applications; C has full access over lower level parts of the OS and the hardware itself; Lua can't do that at all without built-in support or being embedded in, well, something like C.  I can go on and on ;)
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 07:08:03 pm by Ashbad »
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Offline AngelFish

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Re: Will Lua erase the need for Ndless?
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2011, 08:19:56 pm »
Quote from: Ashbad on June 05, 2011, 07:07:51 pm
...C has full access over lower level parts of the OS and the hardware itself...

Technical Correction: C has partial access to the lower level parts of the OS and the hardware itself. Some things just can't be done without dipping into inline ASM. C does a heck of the lot, though, to be fair.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 08:20:33 pm by Qwerty.55 »
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Ashbad

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Re: Will Lua erase the need for Ndless?
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2011, 08:59:03 pm »
Quote from: Qwerty.55 on June 05, 2011, 08:19:56 pm
Quote from: Ashbad on June 05, 2011, 07:07:51 pm
...C has full access over lower level parts of the OS and the hardware itself...

Technical Correction: C has partial access to the lower level parts of the OS and the hardware itself. Some things just can't be done without dipping into inline ASM. C does a heck of the lot, though, to be fair.

That's true.  I guess you can substitute C/ASM for just C there :)
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