Author Topic: 84 Plus OS 2.71MP leaked: The beginning of the end of TI-84+ programming?  (Read 139643 times)

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Offline DrDnar

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Re: 84 Plus OS 2.71MP leaked: The beginning of the end of TI-84+ programming?
« Reply #300 on: December 02, 2012, 04:09:35 am »
The original developers have either moved on or retired, which I guess is a special case of moving-on.
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: 84 Plus OS 2.71MP leaked: The beginning of the end of TI-84+ programming?
« Reply #301 on: December 02, 2012, 10:48:26 pm »
Or maybe they all resigned after TI changed their views about calc ASM (before the Nspire release) :P (that happens to companies or political parties)

Offline Sorunome

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Re: 84 Plus OS 2.71MP leaked: The beginning of the end of TI-84+ programming?
« Reply #302 on: December 02, 2012, 10:50:59 pm »
but the asm support made the 83/84 very popular.....they make no sence at all

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Offline Deep Toaster

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Re: 84 Plus OS 2.71MP leaked: The beginning of the end of TI-84+ programming?
« Reply #303 on: December 03, 2012, 01:29:45 am »
but the asm support made the 83/84 very popular.....they make no sence at all
And that's why they haven't removed it ;)




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Re: 84 Plus OS 2.71MP leaked: The beginning of the end of TI-84+ programming?
« Reply #304 on: December 03, 2012, 01:51:23 am »
I'm sure they considered it before. If they knew it is what made that series popular, they would have let it on the Nspire too. That said, maybe their plans was to remove it only on the Nspire regardless, and discontinue the 84+ series eventually, but due to high demand they kept the 84+ series alive.

Offline Deep Toaster

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Re: 84 Plus OS 2.71MP leaked: The beginning of the end of TI-84+ programming?
« Reply #305 on: December 03, 2012, 03:09:00 am »
I think the main reason they removed native code from the Nspire is the potential test security issues it poses. Their main issue with it is allowing 3rd party OSes: they allowed native code on the 8x series, people started making OSes, they obviously angry (cf. C&D letters), and their solution for the Nspire is to cut off assembly completely.

They do acknowledge the community and the popularity of games and utility programs, so they added Lua to compensate (though there's still a pretty big gap to fill).




Offline Lionel Debroux

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Re: 84 Plus OS 2.71MP leaked: The beginning of the end of TI-84+ programming?
« Reply #306 on: December 03, 2012, 03:59:57 am »
Quote
and their solution for the Nspire is to cut off assembly completely.
And it's exactly the wrong way to handle the problem. History shows that trying to lock down, and prevent users from doing what they want on the hardware they own (or worse, revoking that right at some point !), is a lose-lose situation. Sony found it in an extremely bitter way with the PS3 fiasco.

For TI, closing the Ndless 3.1 hole in OS 3.2.0.1212/1219 broke the last moral barriers: we saw multiple PTTKillers, and then, work on the complete subvertion of production Clickpad calculators through a simple, reversible hardware modification. The Nspire castle has started falling apart, and it will only become even more thoroughly owned if TI keeps their wrong ways...
By complete subvertion of the production Clickpads, I mean the ability to install (not just hot-launch) the CAS OS on the production Clickpad calculators sold as non-CAS, just like on prototype Clickpad calculators. It would even be possible to make the boot1 only accept boot2 and diags signed with one's own RSA key, and therefore, even in case of attempting to reformat all memory or reflash the boot2 right in the testing room, have the calculator rendered useless (which raises serious fairness concerns !) rather than accept TI's official OS. Game over for Clickpads in standardized tests.
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Offline Sorunome

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Re: 84 Plus OS 2.71MP leaked: The beginning of the end of TI-84+ programming?
« Reply #307 on: December 03, 2012, 06:47:18 pm »
But why do third part-os's make them angry? I mean, shouldn't they rather be proud of the community?

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Offline Xeda112358

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Re: 84 Plus OS 2.71MP leaked: The beginning of the end of TI-84+ programming?
« Reply #308 on: December 03, 2012, 06:51:34 pm »
In many other circumstances, I would think they would be proud, but in this case, their primary fear is that an OS will be made that can be easily used for cheating onstandardised exams. TI has taken many measures to make sure their calculators hold up to the standards required by standardised tests, so when a community inadvertently circumvents those measures, their investment has been made worthless.

I think TI should make devices similar to the calculators, but intended for programming.

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Re: 84 Plus OS 2.71MP leaked: The beginning of the end of TI-84+ programming?
« Reply #309 on: December 03, 2012, 06:53:05 pm »
But they are not afraid of penguins os mods and fake mem clears? XD

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Offline Xeda112358

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Re: 84 Plus OS 2.71MP leaked: The beginning of the end of TI-84+ programming?
« Reply #310 on: December 03, 2012, 06:53:52 pm »
Well, they probably are, but it has been established now that they cannot do anything about it.

Offline Sorunome

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Re: 84 Plus OS 2.71MP leaked: The beginning of the end of TI-84+ programming?
« Reply #311 on: December 03, 2012, 06:54:43 pm »
So they decided then to just continue with the series? lol

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Offline Deep Toaster

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Re: 84 Plus OS 2.71MP leaked: The beginning of the end of TI-84+ programming?
« Reply #312 on: December 03, 2012, 09:57:29 pm »
So they decided then to just continue with the series? lol
Are you complaining? :P




Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: 84 Plus OS 2.71MP leaked: The beginning of the end of TI-84+ programming?
« Reply #313 on: December 04, 2012, 12:48:31 am »
Another concern I have is about people who want to make a third-party CAS for models that have no CAS. I wonder if TI and Casio would appreciate, since if those calcs have no reliable PTT/Teacher mode, then the calc wouldn't be allowed to any test that disallows calcs with a CAS.

Offline Lionel Debroux

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Re: 84 Plus OS 2.71MP leaked: The beginning of the end of TI-84+ programming?
« Reply #314 on: December 04, 2012, 01:07:20 pm »
Quote
In many other circumstances, I would think they would be proud, but in this case, their primary fear is that an OS will be made that can be easily used for cheating on standardised exams.
As far as Clickpad Nspires are concerned, the fear has become reality, since production models can easily be made equivalent to prototypes, whose the boot1 can be modified in arbitrary ways. Game over for the Clickpad series.

Quote
TI has taken many measures to make sure their calculators hold up to the standards required by standardised tests, so when a community inadvertently circumvents those measures, their investment has been made worthless.
Inadvertently... or not so inadvertently, as a side effect from the freedom to tinker ;)
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