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Offline Deep Toaster

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Re: 84+/SE Boot Pages Modified
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2011, 02:44:32 pm »
It's lower than that. You could think of the TI-OS itself as one big program that's being run by the boot code.
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Offline ruler501

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Re: 84+/SE Boot Pages Modified
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2011, 02:45:54 pm »
IT appears it is a program that actually runs the calculator. The OS has to go through it I think. It runs pretty much everything I think
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Offline Darl181

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Re: 84+/SE Boot Pages Modified
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2011, 02:46:08 pm »
So the boot code also checks that it's actually TIOS it's running instead of a third-party OS.  (hence signing keys?)  Also it limits TIOS.
Now that it's editable.. ;D
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Offline ruler501

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Re: 84+/SE Boot Pages Modified
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2011, 02:46:51 pm »
Quote from: Darl181 on June 27, 2011, 02:46:08 pm
So the boot code also checks that it's actually TIOS it's running instead of a third-party OS.  (hence signing keys?)  Also it limits TIOS.
Now that it's editable.. ;D
Yep no control by TI over the calculator >:)
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Offline Deep Toaster

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Re: 84+/SE Boot Pages Modified
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2011, 02:48:32 pm »
Quote from: Darl181 on June 27, 2011, 02:46:08 pm
So the boot code also checks that it's actually TIOS it's running instead of a third-party OS.  (hence signing keys?)  Also it limits TIOS.
Now that it's editable.. ;D

It doesn't check if the TI-OS is running -- it runs the TI-OS. Think of the TI-OS as one big program that gets run from the boot code. Even when your calculator "turns off," the TI-OS is still running (that's why it still uses power, and that's why you can't remove all five batteries without resetting RAM). When your calc crashes, it goes back to the boot code to check if there's an OS and start it up.
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Offline ruler501

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Re: 84+/SE Boot Pages Modified
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2011, 02:51:38 pm »
Quote from: Deep Thought on June 27, 2011, 02:48:32 pm
Quote from: Darl181 on June 27, 2011, 02:46:08 pm
So the boot code also checks that it's actually TIOS it's running instead of a third-party OS.  (hence signing keys?)  Also it limits TIOS.
Now that it's editable.. ;D

It doesn't check if the TI-OS is running -- it runs the TI-OS. Think of the TI-OS as one big program that gets run from the boot code. Even when your calculator "turns off," the TI-OS is still running (that's why it still uses power, and that's why you can't remove all five batteries without resetting RAM). When your calc crashes, it goes back to the boot code to check if there's an OS and start it up.
So turning the calc off is more like putting it into standby mode right?
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Offline Deep Toaster

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Re: 84+/SE Boot Pages Modified
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2011, 02:53:48 pm »
Pretty much.
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Offline Lionel Debroux

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Re: 84+/SE Boot Pages Modified
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2011, 03:06:47 pm »
It's very good news, and renewed proof to TI's extensive and long-lasting fail at controlling their devices... Two different flaws found independently in parallel, congratulations :D
Once again, the search for flaws was a consequence of a negative move by TI, towards further locking of their calculators. Let's keep going on, together, with that pattern :)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 03:09:35 pm by Lionel Debroux »
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Offline alberthrocks

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Re: 84+/SE Boot Pages Modified
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2011, 03:10:33 pm »
There is a free boot code out there called BootFree, developed by Benjamin Moody (FloppusMaximus). It's quite hard to find... but you might be able to extract it from the Wabbitemu source code. ;)

EDIT: Found a topic that mentions and gives a link... which is broken. :P http://www.revsoft.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=608&start=45
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 03:11:17 pm by alberthrocks »
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Offline calc84maniac

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Re: 84+/SE Boot Pages Modified
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2011, 03:12:09 pm »
Quote from: alberthrocks on June 27, 2011, 03:10:33 pm
There is a free boot code out there called BootFree, developed by Benjamin Moody (FloppusMaximus). It's quite hard to find... but you might be able to extract it from the Wabbitemu source code. ;)

EDIT: Found a topic that mentions and gives a link... which is broken. :P http://www.revsoft.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=608&start=45
Since it was designed exclusively for emulators, I don't think it has any code to receive an OS over link cable.
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Offline thepenguin77

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Re: 84+/SE Boot Pages Modified
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2011, 03:14:06 pm »
The boot code has two purposes. 1) To receive OS's, 2) To prepare the calculator hardware to run the operating system.

Receiving OS's is one of the boot codes two purposes. Whenever you see the OS percentage screen, that is the boot code. The boot code also makes it appearance in "Waiting... Please send operating system now." However, even if the boot code couldn't receive OS's for whatever reason, this really isn't too bad as there are ways to glitch it.


But the primary purpose of the boot code is to prepare the calculator hardware for an OS and then jump to the OS to let it start executing. Whenever power is cut from the calculator, all of the hardware stuff dies. Then, when power returns, execution starts at the boot code. The boot code sets up all of the calculator hardware, checks to make sure that an OS is installed, and then jump to the OS. But the key thing here is that the boot code is run first no matter what. If you pull a battery, the next thing that is going to run is the boot code. (Unless the calculator is turned off, then you have like 5 secs to put it back in.) So if the boot code is missing, the calculator will crash as soon as a battery is inserted. And when it crashes, guess where it goes. The boot code. This would be an endless loop, and the end of your calculator.
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Offline alberthrocks

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Re: 84+/SE Boot Pages Modified
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2011, 03:18:34 pm »
Quote from: calc84maniac on June 27, 2011, 03:12:09 pm
Quote from: alberthrocks on June 27, 2011, 03:10:33 pm
There is a free boot code out there called BootFree, developed by Benjamin Moody (FloppusMaximus). It's quite hard to find... but you might be able to extract it from the Wabbitemu source code. ;)

EDIT: Found a topic that mentions and gives a link... which is broken. :P http://www.revsoft.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=608&start=45
Since it was designed exclusively for emulators, I don't think it has any code to receive an OS over link cable.
Well, you still have half the functionality! ;) Now it just needs to be improved to get receiving and sending support, this time with a pretty progress bar? :P

Quote from: thepenguin77 on June 27, 2011, 03:14:06 pm
This would be an endless loop, and the end of your calculator.
... unless you take the time to attempt to reprogram your flash chip. :P I've heard some convo about it a while ago, not sure if any breakthrough was found.
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: 84+/SE Boot Pages Modified
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2011, 03:27:44 pm »
This is great news. I read about the boot code exploit for a few days now and I must say those exploits will really need to be bug-free when coming out, since it could be dangerous otherwise (calc bricking), but when they're perfect this will give us even more control on our calcs.
Quote from: ruler501 on June 27, 2011, 02:51:38 pm
Quote from: Deep Thought on June 27, 2011, 02:48:32 pm
Quote from: Darl181 on June 27, 2011, 02:46:08 pm
So the boot code also checks that it's actually TIOS it's running instead of a third-party OS.  (hence signing keys?)  Also it limits TIOS.
Now that it's editable.. ;D

It doesn't check if the TI-OS is running -- it runs the TI-OS. Think of the TI-OS as one big program that gets run from the boot code. Even when your calculator "turns off," the TI-OS is still running (that's why it still uses power, and that's why you can't remove all five batteries without resetting RAM). When your calc crashes, it goes back to the boot code to check if there's an OS and start it up.
So turning the calc off is more like putting it into standby mode right?
Indeed. In fact in ASM in 28 days, they say to really turn the calc OFF, you must remove all five batteries (including the lithium one)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 03:28:45 pm by DJ_O »
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Offline alberthrocks

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Re: 84+/SE Boot Pages Modified
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2011, 03:41:10 pm »
That's correct. :) If you ran, say, KOS or RougeOS, and you took the batteries out, the screen would fade away gradually.
However... if you took the batteries out when running TI-OS, it detect the occurrence and shuts the calc off into a "RAM safe mode", waiting for you to put batteries back in.

Above info not known nor discovered by me, but by the magnificent BrandonW! Great job! :D
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Offline thepenguin77

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Re: 84+/SE Boot Pages Modified
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2011, 04:24:23 pm »
Quote from: DJ_O on June 27, 2011, 03:27:44 pm
Indeed. In fact in ASM in 28 days, they say to really turn the calc OFF, you must remove all five batteries (including the lithium one)

We actually now know better than that. The calculator is off a few hundreths of a second after you pull out a AAA. The reason it appears that it didn't shut off is because the lithium battery kept the ram intact. Execution still starts at the boot code. But, I guess if you call ram intact powered, then yes, it takes all 5 batteries.

Quote from: alberthrocks on June 27, 2011, 03:41:10 pm
That's correct. :) If you ran, say, KOS or RougeOS, and you took the batteries out, the screen would fade away gradually.
However... if you took the batteries out when running TI-OS, it detect the occurrence and shuts the calc off into a "RAM safe mode", waiting for you to put batteries back in.

If you pull the batteries while the calculator is ON, the screen will blank, it won't fade. You can see this happen if you pull the batteries during an assembly program.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 04:36:46 pm by thepenguin77 »
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