Author Topic: OS 3.2 blocks Ndless  (Read 48838 times)

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Offline ruler501

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Re: OS 3.2 blocks Ndless
« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2012, 11:36:36 pm »
Or they could just add protections against what they are scared we will do with ndless instead of completely blocking it and everyone's hard work
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Offline Dingus

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Re: OS 3.2 blocks Ndless
« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2012, 11:41:13 pm »
It's time to switch our support to Casio and not give any further business to ti from us, our friends, our family members, or any potential customers that we can influence.  In addition, it would be helpful to contact your school board and ask them to replace any math teachers who teach nspire operation when they should be teaching math.  That should give ti a bit of an additude adjustment.   

Offline Jonius7

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Re: OS 3.2 blocks Ndless
« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2012, 11:41:55 pm »
I think they are scared of pretty much what possibilities we can come up with to compromise their work.
Or they are too dumb/can't be bothered to think about the things they are scared of and just decide to take the easier path: block everything third party.
Or both, most likely.
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Offline Reo

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Re: OS 3.2 blocks Ndless
« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2012, 11:46:29 pm »
...In addition, it would be helpful to contact your school board and ask them to replace any math teachers who teach nspire operation when they should be teaching math.  That should give ti a bit of an additude adjustment.   
Are you serious? No school board would replace a teacher because of the brand of calculator their class uses, especially because there's little interest in C/ASM programming outside of niche sites like this.

Offline Jonius7

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Re: OS 3.2 blocks Ndless
« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2012, 11:47:57 pm »
...In addition, it would be helpful to contact your school board and ask them to replace any math teachers who teach nspire operation when they should be teaching math.  That should give ti a bit of an additude adjustment.   
Are you serious? No school board would replace a teacher because of the brand of calculator their class uses, especially because there's little interest in C/ASM programming outside of niche sites like this.

And I thought that the school chooses the brand of calculators for the whole year level, and some teachers actually don't like the choice the school has made. And they also have to teach the class anyway how to use the things. I agree with you Reo.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 11:50:11 pm by Jonius7 »
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Offline Adriweb

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Re: OS 3.2 blocks Ndless
« Reply #50 on: March 04, 2012, 01:22:42 am »
I just edited the news since Critor was referring to me directly and what I said and Melendy Lovett, so I thought I had to edit it.

Here's what I added (it was about Ndless blocking on 3.2, when I met Melendy Lovett) :

(These are examples that I myself refer to, I don't think she was the one to bring these examples in.
What she insisted on, and I think it's fair to write about this here, in order to have some objectivity, is that TI is liked "ruled" by its clients, and its main clients are teachers and schools. Meaning that they have to make what teachers want, and they listen to teachers and what they say. Since TI and the teachers are really close, TI can't really allow multiple opposite "development directions", and rather than do as what the community would like, they have to align with what the teachers want, most often. The thing is that there is a real trust relationship between TI and the teachers, and TI thus can't lose this trust by providing tools/devices that can (in the bad case, but since it's a possibility that cannot be marginal, it has to be said) not be trusted because some people can crack it and do things they normally wouldn't be able to do. As teachers want to feel safe about TI products, TI has to provide such products, that's why they try to block Ndless at each update : "protect the teachers" to avoid losing the trust they have established.)



So, maybe this explanation(s) from TI are new for some of you (it was for me at the time), and there are valid arguments on both the community side and the teacher side, but since on this forum, it's the community who is represented, I don't think I'm going to have much success in talking a lot about TI's "closed" Nspire (even though they made a great step ahead with Lua !).

Anyway, as people said, it's always like a game between TI and Ndless, and if it's actually blocked in 3.2, it's also going to get cracked at some point, but it's going to take a while, and that's sad for people who just want to have full access to a device they bought...

I personally think that, even if I'm a TI-Planet co-admin, a lot more people would go update to 3.2 even if they know they'll lose ndless, because TI made honestly some great efforts in this 3.2 update.
The Lua inside is really great (Native Physics Engine binding is ... wow !), there are a numbers of bug fixes and a number of new features, and this can be a game changer for people who were on ndless'd OSes before but didn't really used ndless programs that often. (And I'm an example of this kind of people. I obviously do enjoy nDoom, GBC4nspire, mViewer, etc. and it certainly won't be replaced by whatever TI will do, this is sure), but as I'm a Lua fan, I'll have to update to stay at the latest things available...
(Oh well, I guess it's nice that I have multiple CX to have multiple OSes with ndlessed ones and official ones... :D



Anyway... Thanks for reading that long post, maybe some of you will find it interesting.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 01:35:25 am by adriweb »
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: OS 3.2 blocks Ndless
« Reply #51 on: March 04, 2012, 02:11:34 am »
You should probably choose a different text color, though. Because some people might think this part is fake news :P

And yeah I'M glad they're improving Lua, I just wish they would stop trying to block things a lot of students want to have. A lot of students want Pokémon on their calc, so gbc4nspire. Granted, a lot wants to cheat too, but everytime someone begs for an OSLauncher update we always encourage him to study more and not cheat. As for gbc4nspire and nDoom, as you say, they will never be possible in Lua, at least not as long as it's interpreted and doesn't give access to certain memory areas.

Offline Lionel Debroux

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Re: OS 3.2 blocks Ndless
« Reply #52 on: March 04, 2012, 02:14:55 am »
One of the main things that teachers traditionally don't want is games... yet, TI is adding a physics engine to the OS, and a physics engine aims at stuff much more complicated than constant acceleration parabolics (and simple educational needs that don't require a complete physics engine)...
Could they explain this apparent contradiction ?
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: OS 3.2 blocks Ndless
« Reply #53 on: March 04, 2012, 02:26:44 am »
Yeah true. Although I think it might be the fact Ndless can get calcs banned from tests, while games can't, although both annoys teachers.

Offline Jim Bauwens

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Re: OS 3.2 blocks Ndless
« Reply #54 on: March 04, 2012, 03:05:00 am »
I agree with much of what Adrien said, and I too am mainly a Lua fun.

But I think that somewhere there is a solution to this, but TI isn't looking enough.
I understand TI's concerns, but they are too fast in cutting of the community.

Offline Lionel Debroux

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Re: OS 3.2 blocks Ndless
« Reply #55 on: March 04, 2012, 03:19:54 am »
Quote
I understand TI's concerns, but they are too fast in cutting of the community.
Same here, and it's an understatement that they're too fast in screwing the community up :)
Whatever their concerns are, we have the freedom to tinker, and they can't do anything against it - especially not such silly actions as trying to lock down and thereby raising their exposition to severe trouble.
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Offline Keoni29

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Re: OS 3.2 blocks Ndless
« Reply #56 on: March 04, 2012, 10:46:55 am »
Okay I cannot read that without newlines :P I get your point, but I can understand why they do not approve "jailbreaking". TI is professional and not some open-source internet user.
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Offline Hayleia

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Re: OS 3.2 blocks Ndless
« Reply #57 on: March 04, 2012, 02:24:36 pm »
I just thought that the more there are games for Ndless, the more TI will see that we don't care about cheating and also, the more people will be interested in Ndless and pressure TI not to block it. However, I am not sure if that would make them change their mind.

So don't show them you were beaten by giving up your projects, but keep on programming (without making cheating programs :P)

edit: I corrected a mistake: there was a "us" instead of a "them".
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 02:32:34 pm by Hayleia »
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Offline Lionel Debroux

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Re: OS 3.2 blocks Ndless
« Reply #58 on: March 04, 2012, 02:30:29 pm »
Quote
However, I am not sure if that would make them change their mind.
Rather, I am sure that it would not make them change their mind ;)
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Offline alberthrocks

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Re: OS 3.2 blocks Ndless
« Reply #59 on: March 04, 2012, 03:40:22 pm »
Quote
However, I am not sure if that would make them change their mind.
Rather, I am sure that it would not make them change their mind ;)
Agreed - gaming is probably on the teacher's "no-no" list, so it is probably on TI's too. :P
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