Status of the TI community

[DJ Omnimaga]

Hello to all our calculator fans. As some of you might know, I have been programming for calculators for over 4 years now and even though I haven't been an active member of the TI community (on forums, IRC and comment pages) I was here, browsing TI related websites and project pages and I've seen a lot happening since then. What follow is not related to RPGs in particular but the whole TI community in general, and I think this is something important, something very very important that everyone should care about, altough some of you probably noticed so far.

When I joined the TI community back in fall 2001, 3 months after getting my TI-83+, I stumbled across many french and english TI websites that weren't updated anymore (last news dated back in summer 2001), and as I browsed the web, I kept running into those websites. Later I found some that were still updated, then a few weeks later the webmaster were announcing that they were no longer part of the TI community and were stopping updating their homepage. Only a few active website I regulary visited remained. Then I found http://web.archive.org/web/20010925194218/http://badja.calc.org/, http://void.ticalc.org, http://www.calc.org and http://www.ticalc.org. I visited Badja regulary only to find out that they were fading away as well, and most website links they had were broken or were dead websites and programming groups. Until summer 2002 I saw many other programming groups fading away, website shutting down, to finally see Void Productions main projects (Zelda: Illusion of the Past and RPG Alpha) dissapear in the void, left with no more news, and Badja TI Program dissapear from existence with Calc.org server crash. Destination Software (a.k.a Midknight Soft) dissapeared as well, Tcpa as well and most of those never came back. If you go though the list of featured programs at ticalc.org you will notice that only one program got featured between August 2001 and March 2002. There was even some joke back then about ticalc.org pending queue being extremly low. Basically I joined the TI community at the time it was falling apart and I saw all this happen.

You are probably going to ask me "why I am posting this on Omnimaga front page?" but I think that stuff is happening once again right now. If you went through that featured page at ticalc.org recently you probably have noticed that the amount of featured TI-83/+ programs so far is inexplicably low. Only 5 programs, 2 of which are mines, not to mention that there aren't many programs for other platform compared to the past years. I (and probably some other old members of the TI community who are still here) never seen that happen since early 2002 and I think this is a shame how inactive the TI community went through this year, especially the z80 calculator scene.

I have been a very active member of MaxCoderz forums from summer 2003 to summer 2005 (as well as many other calculator related forums ) and I remember on the old MaxCoderz forums (before they got hacked in november 2004) there was always new projects popping up and progressing nicely (including Metroid, Corbin, etc.). In 2005, however, something I never seen happen before, happened. Lot of new people joined the TI community, they had lot of projects. However they all started to slowly fade away and those who stayed were moving to other interests, not to mention that at that time some old TI community members were also fading away from calc programming. I have seen this happen, even after I left MaxCoderz, and I still see this happen right now. Some projects are left with no news, and others becomes non calculator projects (like Shattered Oasis, which was a 83+ project that is now a Pocket PC project, and The Sword of Darkness, which was a 89 project that is now a PSP project). I think this is very sad to see that many people losing interest in calc programming. Because of that I even lost motivation myself and stopped calculator programming for 4 months (as you can see my last finished project before that Dance Dance Revolution clone was released 8 months ago). Some programming groups are starting to become inactive again, like Epic Programming Studio and Macross Software. Some are now gone. If it continue at this rate the TI community will fade away itself and in a few years students coming at ticalc.org, Omnimaga or other remaining calculator websites will only find games that were made several years ago, nothing new anymore. Basically the TI community will become like a museum where old stuff is stored in memory of other people.

I don't know what we should do about this but I think giving more support to programmers, avoid flaming and destructive criticism and instead give constructive comments to help others improve their work might help a lot. If someone doesn't get any feedback on his project he will think no one is interested in seeing his game come out and he will eventually stop working on it, and in some case, like I saw happen before he will leave the scene. I don't think anyone want the TI community to die we need to do something about this.

[CDI]

I agree, when I joined (after the summer of 04 wich I saw was a bad time) the TI community had a tiny up, then a big down... if we can get back on out feet then maybe we can be better... but I think we (or part's of us) are down for the count... I know T14 will be my last RPG (I *might* finish Dawn of Shadows...) and I have been having less and less ideas for games... nontheless I want to be the very last one to leave if at all...

[Spellshaper]

I

[tifreak]

I haven't lost total motivation yet, as just when I feel I should quit, someone emails me with a job well done on one of my projects, and urges me onward. I just wish it would happen more often...

[threefingeredguy]

Revsoft is up and running. We hope we can help save the community.

[solitaire710]

I definitely agree Kevin......I remember those days

:ph43r:

[AlienCC]

Rather then post the same thing here, I'll just link you to my response to your article.

http://www.unitedti.org/index.php?showtopic=3721&st=0&p=59372entry59372

--AlienCC

[arti]

I totally agree with you Kevin. The TI community is fading, but that is perhaps because not too many new programmers join - this might indeed be the end of the TI scene - why? Because less and less kids are interested in programming and learning something nice on their own. They become more and more absorbed in Nintendo and smoking weed. Man, I'm tired, I promise I'll post a worthy reply this weekend when I'm fully awake...

[Ranman]

This post required some deep pondering:


It is a little weird... If you go to the Ticalc stats page you can see the number of downloads increasing all the time (especially for the TI-83/84 platform). But, you are right, fewer and fewer programs are showing up.

Maybe Arti is right, could people be getting lazy? Are people beginning to think, "Why should I program when there are so many great programs out there already? Heh... I'll just download an play it." Maybe.

I have always thought of programming as fun (even in my old age). Especially on calculators. They are such a limited platform, it make you think harder how to pull something off. You have to think about size, speed, limited resolution, limited colors, and the fact that it is embedded.

I program for Windows sometimes... it is just not that fun. I have been in the TI community for 8 years now. I was in the Casio community for the 3 years prior to that. Sure there are cyclicle ups and downs.

In my opinion the Ticalc rating system needs to go away. I believe it has a negative effect on programmers -- unless of course you get rated really high. If someone spends a year on a project, submits it, and it gets rated low... well then he/she may decide to throw in the towel.

The problem with the system is every member is allowed to rate a file completely anonymously. So, if you make someone upset... Look out for potential revenge. People should be held accountable by giving reasons for their ratings -- at least maybe to the author. Also, the original intent of the rating system was to get as many programs rated as possible, so the unrated or low rated programs could be sorted to a seperate domain. This is a good idea especially with the size of the Ticalc archives. But... So far it has not happened.

I was a victim of the lowest possible rating (verified by Ticalc staff). I don't think any of http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/authors/69/6995.html are that bad... I don't think anyone deserves the lowest rating. It was like a slap in the face. :flame:  I wanted to ask the person why he/she rated it so low... whoops... anonymous... too bad. :angry:  Progress on Ultima V almost stopped at that point. Why continue if no one cares?

Why continue? Because deep down it is fun.  We need to encourage not discourage programmers. Ratings can be encouraging and/or discouraging. So, be thoughtful when you rate a file. You could determine if someone stays or goes.


Thank you Kevin for making us think!

[Lionel Debroux]

Well thought and written.
I'm exactly in one of the situations you're describing: I don't have that much free time (school), I have almost totally lost motivation (I have pending updates that have been waiting for months that I make them, which is only a matter of hours... and I was planning to port an old game I like, but I won't, at least on TI-68k calculators), and my areas of interest are drifting.
As David pointed out, TI-68k platforms are great for learning low-level or mid-level (true event-driven cooperative multitasking - not event hooks) programming on embedded platforms. Indeed, one has to take everything (speed, space, screen size, UI, etc.) in account to try and use the full power of the platform.
But as a CS student, I know that I have to learn things on my own, mostly on other platforms, because what I'm taught at school is not always quite enough to find a job (nothing on Perl, Python, Ruby, etc. in my courses - but we've studied Prolog, for example).

On a side note, see how great the GP2X is for games - and it's an open platform running the Linux kernel, unlike that PSP crap which Sony keeps proprietary, closed - and costly.

[tr1p1ea]

Well kevin i like your article. We at MaxCoderz have noticed that things are declining and we have come up with a plan that might help get the community back into action .

[Ranman]

QuoteBegin-Lionel Debroux+22 October 2005, 2:2-->

QUOTE (Lionel Debroux @ 22 October 2005, 2:20)

On a side note, see how great the GP2X is for games - and it's an open platform running the Linux kernel, unlike that PSP crap which Sony keeps proprietary, closed - and costly.

I have a GP32 but I really want the new http://www.gp2x.com/product/product.asp. I'll have to convince the boss -- my wife.

Lionel, I want to personally thank you for all of the hard work that you have contributed to the TI community. Your work is definitely the back bone of a good portion of TI68K projects -- including mine.  

[Lionel Debroux]

> I have a GP32 but I really want the new GP2X. I'll have to convince the boss -- my wife.
I'll remember that in case I get a GP2X too.

> Lionel, I want to personally thank you for all of the hard work that you have contributed to the TI community. Your work is definitely the back bone of a good portion of TI68K projects -- including mine.
Thanks a lot David.
To be fair, I have to add that the work you're talking about is work done by others (especially ExtGraph, which you contributed to). Let's put it another way: no reasonably-sized released TICT program is entirely my work. That's cooperation, and things go better this way... I have not always been cooperative with everybody, though.

[saubue]

I also agree with you, Kevin.
In Germany, the communtiy is VERY small and it hardly gets new members (I guess 10 per year or so). But I think it had been this way all the time.

However, globally seen, I think that this loss of interest in programming can be seen as a snowball effect: the more people aren't interested in programming, the more will loose the courage in the future.

I'm also having problems of too less feedback for my programs. Example given, I have now worked about 4 months on PowerComPress, and if you want to know if people are interested, see http://p080.ezboard.com/ftichessteamhqfrm10.showMessage?topicID=187.topic

At this point, I want to thank Kevin and Omnimaga for their immense interest in new projects and games; without this site I might have stopped working on Shadow Falls very early.

That said, I haven't got a solution to all this problems...

[Ranman]

QuoteBegin-Lionel Debroux+22 October 2005, 9:11-->

QUOTE (Lionel Debroux @ 22 October 2005, 9:11)

To be fair, I have to add that the work you're talking about is work done by others ... That's cooperation, and things go better this way... I have not always been cooperative with everybody, though.

 Agreed. You are correct. The thanks go out to many.

So thank you all! Job well done. :ru13z: