TI bans community calculator emulation

[blue_bear_94]

I believe that it would be almost impossible to create a system that cannot be circumvented. But also, there is practically no way for TI to know whether we're using their stuff on our emulators.

[DJ Omnimaga]

Considering the fact that there's no way for TI to detect if we're using the OS on 3rd party emulators and that emulators that contains no copyrighted code are fully legal, then we are safe and we can move on.

If TI dares to send a DMCA notice to Omni, Cemetech, Ticalc and TI-Planet so that we take any 3rd-party emulator off our archives, then it won't win since they don't have a case. In fact, I think if the EFF can be involved like with the RSA keys in 2009, then it would be even easier to win.

Also it's not like they're losing much from 3rd-party emulation, because most people who use emulators are TI community programmers and gamers, not math students.

In conclusion, jsTIfied is safe, Wabbitemu is safe, VirtualTI is safe, TiEmu might be safe, but TI8xemu is not (since ROMs are included in it). Using all of those is safe too, as long as you have the calc, and even if you don't, then it's TI's job to add anti-emulation protections to their OSes or something to detect that you own the calc or the official emulator before the ROM can be used inside a 3rd-party emulator.

[AzNg0d1030]

Wait it says that you can't use TI's website's roms on any random emulator. Can you still use your self obtained one (through dumping your calculator) on any?

edit: Ah nvm I read the previous post

[DJ Omnimaga]

There are no ROM files on TI website, only OSes. You need to download their OSes or one from your calculator, then do a ROM dump using a third-party emulator or ROM dumping program. Some emulators might accept OS files directly, though.

[willrandship]

EULAs are not legally binding. There's nothing to be concerned about, because this "rule" they introduced is in direct conflict with the DMCA. Seriously, this has absolutely no effect on us.

[jessedog3]

Is there some stipulation that you are bound by the software license included in the calculator packaging? I don't remember seeing TI's EULA in my 84+SE packaging, but I might have missed it.

[willrandship]

They can't enforce the EULA at all. They have no legal power outside the law, no matter what implied contracts you have signed. This is because of the ridiculous ease by which people agree to the contracts.

The EULA is in the packaging. It's in the manual.

[TravisE]

EULAs are not legally binding. There's nothing to be concerned about, because this "rule" they introduced is in direct conflict with the DMCA. Seriously, this has absolutely no effect on us.

In the US, EULAs have indeed been upheld as legally binding in some cases (though not in all).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-user_license_agreement#Enforceability_of_EULAs_in_the_United_States

[willrandship]

Those cases are rare, especially those relating to things such as reverse engineering which is FAR more touchy than emulation. It's a pity that the geohot case was settled out of court, or we'd have a more recent case to go by.

[jessedog3]

The EULA is in the packaging. It's in the manual.

Oh, thanks

[AngelFish]

They can't enforce the EULA at all. They have no legal power outside the law, no matter what implied contracts you have signed. This is because of the ridiculous ease by which people agree to the contracts.

The EULA is in the packaging. It's in the manual.

They can't enforce it, but it's (probably) not because it has no legal power. It's because there really isn't any way to prove damages from violation of this and they have no real power to do anything about an offender even if they could somehow magically prove that the EULA was broken. For consumers, this has absolutely no impact on them. The only case where I could see this being important is with TI's big customers: Schools. Schools are very likely to make a choice between a 3rd party emulator and TI's on the basis of an EULA. Schools are also the target market of the emulators and TI can much more easily enforce agreements with them. Similarly, TI also CARES about schools; not so much about consumers.

[alberthrocks]

I think TI was aiming at prohibiting something like BootFree. At the same time, TI is also (likely) trying to hinder emulator development for the TI-84 C by forcing emulator developers to buy the device and tinker with it before being able to write a good emulator. Two birds with one stone (or EULA clause)!

Though to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they decided in the future to sneak something in the EULA for the calculator (box label and such) prohibiting use of it at all for dumping ROMs and emulating... assuming they haven't done this already! (Or are planning to when they release the TI-84+ C)

[Sorunome]

why are they doing this
I mean, you still need a real calculator to legally use a third party emulator...

[DJ Omnimaga]

Is there some stipulation that you are bound by the software license included in the calculator packaging? I don't remember seeing TI's EULA in my 84+SE packaging, but I might have missed it.

I think the EULA has been on TI website since 2004, but I don't remember seeing the OS use policies on TI website before.

And yeah I think they're trying to make extra money by having an emulator early. The warning message is most likely a dissuasive one, since it cannot be enforced at all. When the TI-84+ came out, it took years before they release an emulator, yet there were TI-83 Plus emulators since 2000. Now they announced TI-SmartView immediately.

By the way I hope TI-SmartView price is more reasonable than the PRIZM manager. The PRIZM is $129.99, but the emulator is $199.99. At least when you buy a TI-Nspire for $159.99 you get an emulator AND a calc.

[Lionel Debroux]

I'll add that for emulation purposes, a boot code is required:
* neither for the TI-Z80 series, thanks to BootFree;
* nor for the TI-68k series, whose boot code is simply unneeded for emulation, lest one wants to emulate the OS sending & upgrade code;
* nor even the Nspire Clickpad & Touchpad series, where the boot2 distributed alongside OS upgrades is enough.
However, emulating the CX and CM series requires a dump of the boot1 (and dumpers are more legal than distributing some code containing TI's 3-DES keys).