Quote from: apcalc on July 20, 2010, 12:08:30 pm

lol.  I e-mailed them asking how to downgrade, seeming like I didn't even know Ndless existed (I asked how to downgrade to 1.3) and they just said it is not possible without supplying any good reason.

Idea: Maybe this means that it is technically possible, and TI's just not telling us how unless we give a "good reason"? Maybe we could come up with a legitimate (i.e., unrelated to Ndless in any way) reason to downgrade, and approach TI with that.

What he meant is that TI didn't give a good reason to why they don't allow downgrades.

Quote from: juju2143 on July 21, 2010, 02:10:59 am

I wonder what would happen if you directly asked TI about unsigned code stuff, Ndless or even asking them to send you the signing keys... Is someone enough jackass to call them about that? I'm sure they will forward you one billion times before reaching someone smart enough to understand what you are saying. At least. Then the rest will be unexpected, in the worst case they will send you a DCMA notice or just give you some stupid answer.

You know what, I'm actually thinking about doing this. 
I don't have an Nspire, but I think it would be interesting if I ask them so bluntly that they would actually have to have someone type out an answer instead of just running their auto-answer program (written completely in TI-BASIC so that you have to wait 2 weeks for a response).

I suggest you should first post the letter here, so that we can double-check it, in case you let some valuable information slip through.

Maybe there are spies here...

Quote from: Deep Thought on July 21, 2010, 03:54:28 am

Quote from: apcalc on July 20, 2010, 12:08:30 pm

lol.  I e-mailed them asking how to downgrade, seeming like I didn't even know Ndless existed (I asked how to downgrade to 1.3) and they just said it is not possible without supplying any good reason.

Idea: Maybe this means that it is technically possible, and TI's just not telling us how unless we give a "good reason"? Maybe we could come up with a legitimate (i.e., unrelated to Ndless in any way) reason to downgrade, and approach TI with that.

What he meant is that TI didn't give a good reason to why they don't allow downgrades.

Quote from: Magic Banana on July 21, 2010, 02:27:35 am

Quote from: juju2143 on July 21, 2010, 02:10:59 am

I wonder what would happen if you directly asked TI about unsigned code stuff, Ndless or even asking them to send you the signing keys... Is someone enough jackass to call them about that? I'm sure they will forward you one billion times before reaching someone smart enough to understand what you are saying. At least. Then the rest will be unexpected, in the worst case they will send you a DCMA notice or just give you some stupid answer.

You know what, I'm actually thinking about doing this. 
I don't have an Nspire, but I think it would be interesting if I ask them so bluntly that they would actually have to have someone type out an answer instead of just running their auto-answer program (written completely in TI-BASIC so that you have to wait 2 weeks for a response).

I suggest you should first post the letter here, so that we can double-check it, in case you let some valuable information slip through.

I meant that the way they replied, maybe they do allow downgrades, but they haven't told anyone how, and they won't unless someone comes up with a legitimate reason.

Idea: Maybe this means that it is technically possible, and TI's just not telling us how unless we give a "good reason"? Maybe we could come up with a legitimate (i.e., unrelated to Ndless in any way) reason to downgrade, and approach TI with that.

That is exactly what I did.  Here is my email:

Hello. I just updated my TI-Nspire to the new OS 2.1 just recently
placed on your website to see the new features. Unfortunatley, my teacher will
not allow me to use any operating system above 1.3 because of added programming
capabilities that can give me an unfair advantage on tests. Usually after
upgrading my OS to check out the new features, I could simply resend the lower
OS version to my TI-Nspire. With this new OS version, when I try to send OS 1.3,
I get an error at the end of the file transfer that says that I can't install
the OS. Could you assist me in installing this older operating system? I will
not be able to use my TI-Nspire in school next year if I do not fix this
problem

Nice apcalc.

My reason is simple:  I like 2.44 better than 2.54.

Yeah true. It's 1.6 or lower he can no longer use, right? That said, if Ndless 2 was discontinued, people would still need OS 1.1, though, anyway. I hope Ndless never gets discontinued , it would suck if only clickpad Nspire users could play ASM/C games :S

Sorry to be so pessimistic, but you can still downgrade to 1.7 (2.48) which doesn't have mathprint.

You can downgrade your TI-Nspire ClickPad to 1.7.
You cannot downgrade your TI-Nspire TouchPad to 1.7, which means you're stuck with 2.54MP.


In fact, OS 2.1 and TouchPads are using the same protection.

There is a minimal OS version in memory, just after boot2 (so out of the maintenance menu formatting zone).

OSes update this value with a higher version, but never with a lower version.


From what I know and what I have tested:

* installing OS 2.1 can update to a 1.7.xxxx minimal version
* while booting OS 2.1, boot2 can update to a 1.7.xxxx minimal version
* after OSes 2.0.0/2.0.1/2.1.0 have been launched, they can update to 2.0.0 if a TouchPad calculator (or keypad?...) is detected


Perhaps other updates of the minimal OS version are triggered too...
It looks complicated to bypass that, yes... (at least 3 checkings/updates of the minimal version: installation time + boot2 time + just after boot)

But be happy as there is one very good news.
If you can break OS 2.1 protection, then you can downgrade TouchPads too.
Just be sure to have a ClickPad keypad by hand, as the TouchPad keypad is not working properly with OSes 1.x, due to a different keymap.

No, as Brandon said, "ndless2 NEEDS to come out, if geogeo and such dont do it, someone else will.

Yeah.

If it wasn't for the possibility of TI having spies on all forums and channels, ExtendeD and geogeo could simply post on all forums including Omni to recruit people to work on Ndless 2. I am sure on UTI and Omni they would get a whole bunch of interest. THe problem, though: we never know if one of those ppl may not start privately e-mailing TI all the Ndless hack infos in our back, while spying on the development. I'm not pointing fingers, but with TI, we must be careful to who precious info is revealed. Heck, don't wonder why so few info about Ndless dev was given, so far.