Author Topic: TI NSpire CX CAS VS HP Prime CAS (Read 35501 times)

JamesNewman · « **Reply #15 on:** May 04, 2013, 08:17:26 am »

So, the TI Nspire is still relevant? Is it 'future-proof'? I mean, will it last for the next 3 years? That's how long I'm planning to use it for. I don't want to spend this much on a calculator and it become outdated in a few months. Thanks.

James

Adriweb · « **Reply #16 on:** May 04, 2013, 08:26:25 am »

See my post here : http://ourl.ca/18820/347194
You should avoid double posting.

JamesNewman · « **Reply #17 on:** May 04, 2013, 09:26:48 am »

Sorry about double posting. There didn't seem to be anyone online on that thread.

But, thanks very much for the answer. I'll be getting the TI Nspire next week...

James

DJ Omnimaga · « **Reply #18 on:** May 04, 2013, 12:19:19 pm »

The only concern I have is that once the novelty of the Prime will wear out, very few people will continue coding games for it anymore (kinda like with the Nspire). However, if it ever becomes popular in school, if it's not as locked down as the Nspire it might stand a greater chance. History with the Casio PRIZM (which isn't locked down) tells me that it will be hard for the HP Prime to compete, though, even moreso with a CAS in United States.

JamesNewman · « **Reply #19 on:** May 04, 2013, 03:29:02 pm »

What do you mean by 'kinda like with the Nspire'? I thought the Nspire development community was popular and active. So, you think in a year or so, no-one will code for the Nspire CX CAS?

Lionel Debroux · « **Reply #20 on:** May 04, 2013, 03:34:47 pm »

Quote

I thought the Nspire development community was large

The Nspire development community has always been small (a dwarf compared to the TI-Z80 community even nowadays, and the former TI-68k community, which died in 2006-2007), due to the closed nature of the platform, and TI actively fighting programming on their calculators:
* BASIC without proper I/O instructions (and the first OS version didn't even have any kind of BASIC programming in the first place !!);
* a special form of Lua, significantly two-way incompatible with standard Lua (no file I/O, etc.), which was released only four years after the introduction of the platform on the marketplace;
* of course, closing the arbitrary code execution holes that third parties have been exploiting to run native code.

People will keep coding for the CX CAS, but not much.

DJ Omnimaga · « **Reply #21 on:** May 04, 2013, 03:42:17 pm »

The Nspire is extremely popular in school for educational purposes, but since 2011, its programming purpose declined in popularity (partly due to TI locking down the platform everytime but probably also because some people find it less entertaining to hack than a 6-15 MHz calculator with 24 KB of RAM and others don't see the need to make new games for it when we can just download thousands of NES/GBC/GBA games for it). Back in Early 2010 until Early 2011, Nspire development was on-par with Z80 development in popularity. Nowadays, there are many tools coming out to hack the calc or run third party OSes, but almost no more new games. Of course I'm not blaming emulators, but now the Nspire quality standard for an RPG, for example, is Breath of Fire and Golden Sun, and I seriously doubt that anyone programming for calcs is dedicated enough to attempt to top that. (Although if he did, he could do much more, since he wouldn't be slowed down by emulation).

So if, for example, you decided to make Nspire games, you would be sure to get a lot of downloads on large sites, but you would be among the few who actually release games. The same thing is happening with 68K calcs since the past 5 years, but the two reasons why the 68K programming community died are completely different than the Nspire.

Hayleia · « **Reply #22 on:** May 04, 2013, 03:44:43 pm »

Quote from: JamesNewman on May 04, 2013, 03:29:02 pm

What do you mean by 'kinda like with the Nspire'? I thought the Nspire development community was popular and active. So, you think in a year or so, no-one will code for the Nspire CX CAS?

It is not popular. It is a lot less popular than the Prizm community. But it is a lot more active than the Prizm community. That sounds like a paradox but yeah, more programs come out for the Nspire than for the Prizm (at least how I counted them). Maybe because the Nspire can run more things due to its power.

JamesNewman · « **Reply #23 on:** May 04, 2013, 03:48:35 pm »

Oh. Thank you for clearing that up. I still think getting the Nspire is the best option.

Also, thank you to everyone for putting up with me and answering my endless questions.

DJ Omnimaga · « **Reply #24 on:** May 04, 2013, 03:49:42 pm »

Actually PRIZM dev almost completely died a while ago, but it seems to have been revived lately. I think the problem is that it never really took off on Omnimaga and Planète-Casio (in the latter case, everyone are still doing FX-9860G BASIC and C), so only Cemetech really remained involved. Casio and HP's issue, though, is that they always lived under the shadow of TI and never came close to compete in most markets (even though their calcs aren't necessarily that bad and sometimes are even better and less expensive).

The major danger for any calculator is that most calc programmers will choose (and stick with) BASIC programming, because they found it easier, especially due to the built-in tools allowing them to program it on-calc. Just see how many BASIC programs there are on ticalc compared to ASM/C/Lua ones. If a calculator in particular lacks a decent BASIC language for games (which the Nspire and to a lesser extent the PRIZM lacks), then you already lose over 50% of your programming fanbase. It doesn't matter if the BASIC language is as slow as the TI-82, 83+ or 86, as long as it isn't brutal like PRIZM drawing commands. Many people will still find it entertaining to code.

Adriweb · « **Reply #25 on:** May 04, 2013, 06:45:27 pm »

Just to be clear, the Nspire development is not at all like the z80 or 68k. The Nspires, because of TI locking them down from native programming, are completely oriented towards math/science programmability (it was quite bad at first with no input, indeed, but it's gotten better little by little). I believe the number of educational activities (documents, "programs") available for the Nspire is extremely far beyond any other platform, and it has every reason to be so, the platform being well suited for this use.
By restricting the possibilities of built-in on-calc programming to TI-Basic, TI knowingly made it clear that it was made for and designed for math&science things. And for that, this platform is probably the best among any other calc.
For gaming/hacking/etc. well, it has to be through unofficial things, so obviously it's less easy than having an official way with an SDK, etc. That simply explains the difference of popularity for native programming projects.

Lionel Debroux · « **Reply #26 on:** May 05, 2013, 02:28:54 am »

Quote

(it was quite bad at first with no input, indeed, but it's gotten better little by little)

It still cannot draw pixels to the screen or get direct input from the keyboard (getKey()), which pretty much any programmable calculator can do, even the TI-81 from more than 20 years ago and various even older models from other manufacturers. The older HP-41C, which both you and me know well enough, doesn't have a graphical screen, but it has getKey(), the keyboard is remappable, and programming it at a lower level than BASIC is possible.
As you're aware, getKey(), drawing pixels to the screen or outputting data to the RS232 port (which TI shortly gave as an implementation side effect of a Lua function, but quickly took away...) would be useful even for teaching.

DJ Omnimaga · « **Reply #27 on:** May 05, 2013, 02:32:49 am »

One thing I dislike about both the 68K and Nspire input command is how a big window/alert appears,prompting for the answer. This can be problematic for game development because it disrupts the layout. In my TI-81 game Illusiat 81, I display the map, followed by instructions, where you choose an option. Sadly, on 68K/Nspire calcs, instead of being like a command console, it hides most of the game graphics, disrupting design.

Adriweb · « **Reply #28 on:** May 05, 2013, 06:48:10 am »

Quote from: Lionel Debroux on May 05, 2013, 02:28:54 am

Quote
(it was quite bad at first with no input, indeed, but it's gotten better little by little)
It still cannot draw pixels to the screen or get direct input from the keyboard (getKey()), which pretty much any programmable calculator can do, even the TI-81 from more than 20 years ago and various even older models from other manufacturers. The older HP-41C, which both you and me know well enough, doesn't have a graphical screen, but it has getKey(), the keyboard is remappable, and programming it at a lower level than BASIC is possible.
As you're aware, getKey(), drawing pixels to the screen or outputting data to the RS232 port (which TI shortly gave as an implementation side effect of a Lua function, but quickly took away...) would be useful even for teaching.

I couldn't agree more, obviously, there still are some incomprehensible lacks.
Btw, we've asked for print() back, so, we'll see...

DJ Omnimaga · « **Reply #29 on:** May 05, 2013, 12:41:55 pm »

By the way any clue why almost every Lua game only use shapes instead of 16x16 sprites? Is it because people just don't want to spend time making artwork or is it just because they're too slow in game/hard to implement?

Author Topic: TI NSpire CX CAS VS HP Prime CAS (Read 35501 times)

JamesNewman

Re: TI NSpire CX CAS VS HP Prime CAS

Adriweb

Re: TI NSpire CX CAS VS HP Prime CAS

JamesNewman

Re: TI NSpire CX CAS VS HP Prime CAS

DJ Omnimaga

Re: TI NSpire CX CAS VS HP Prime CAS

JamesNewman

Re: TI NSpire CX CAS VS HP Prime CAS

Lionel Debroux

Re: TI NSpire CX CAS VS HP Prime CAS

DJ Omnimaga

Re: TI NSpire CX CAS VS HP Prime CAS

Hayleia

Re: TI NSpire CX CAS VS HP Prime CAS

JamesNewman

Re: TI NSpire CX CAS VS HP Prime CAS

DJ Omnimaga

Re: TI NSpire CX CAS VS HP Prime CAS

Adriweb

Re: TI NSpire CX CAS VS HP Prime CAS

Lionel Debroux

Re: TI NSpire CX CAS VS HP Prime CAS

DJ Omnimaga

Re: TI NSpire CX CAS VS HP Prime CAS

Adriweb

Re: TI NSpire CX CAS VS HP Prime CAS

DJ Omnimaga

Re: TI NSpire CX CAS VS HP Prime CAS