Quote from: KermMartian on November 15, 2011, 01:01:59 pm

Axe is not good for trying to make a shell or GUI API.

Now I wanna make an Axe GUI.

Go for it. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

Also, since it's much easier to hate people you don't know personally and imagine malice that they don't feel, I encourage you all to join the 58th weekly Have Calc, Will Program session Wednesday evening at 8pm Eastern time and chat with us in person; as usual we'll be discussing programming help, anyone's recent projects, and continuing to enliven the community.   I certainly would be happy to talk to anyone who has possible misconceptions about anything.

lkj, if you read the thread in question, you'll see that no one was claiming either that only ASM programmers are good, or that Axe programmers are bad programmers.  Instead, the main point that everyone, Cemetech regulars and Omnimaga regulars alike, respectfully and amicably agreed upon, was that it behooves programmers to pick the correct language for what they're trying to make.  Clearly BASIC is not good for trying to make complex grayscale games, ASM is not good for writing floating-point math programs, and Axe is not good for trying to make a shell or GUI API.  I strongly invite you to read through the thread in question on Cemetech from beginning to end and see if your opinion of it changes.  I caution you not to accept someone else's characterization without freely deciding for yourself.

Omnimaga is, in one way, Axe's home, and the same way, Cemetech is DoorsCS' home.
On Cemetech, you criticized Axe.
On Omnimaga, I said that some of your critics could apply to DoorsCS.
So we basically did the same thing.

One of the misunderstandings here is that the cultures on Cemetech and Omnimaga are quite different.  On Omnimaga, bashing is forbidden, so people tend to compliment projects and offer only positive suggestions regardless of the project and author, which is fine, that's the type of community (well, except for years of threads like this criticizing me, Cemetech, and Cemetech's members ). I feel that a lot of that tradition comes from the general audience of Omnimaga, who tend to be younger, generally high school age or below, and who perhaps need those sort of rules in place to maintain harmony, which seems successful, again with the exception of threads like this one.  Cemetech, on the other hand, tries to promote more open discussion, including, where appropriate, criticisms.  We especially like people to speak their minds, develop their own opinions, and think for themselves.  Fittingly, the Cemetech crowd tends to be older programmers, from high school through college through professionals; I myself am a PhD student, as you may or may not know.  When we see a programmer attempting a project that may be outside the scope of his skill or patience, we try to gently push him or her towards a project that may be better suited to his or her current abilities, and will thus give him more experience to later tackle his original project and be more likely to succeed with it.  We have found that this is a very effective approach in the past, and even though people may balk at it at first, they almost universally look back on the experience later and thank us for helping them maintain a realistic view.  Needless to say, it takes a more mature individual, for better or worse, to interpret negative feedback as constructive rather than seeing it as outright criticism or insulting.  That's not to say one shouldn't respond in kind to outright insults, but one gains a certain understanding that some criticisms are intended in the best interest of the programmer in question.  At Cemetech, I try to encourage everyone to think for themselves and form their own opinions, even if they may offend me or each other, because they're just opinions, and everyone is welcome to their own.  Hence, if I say "I feel ____ about Axe", that's my prerogative, and it's up to the other members of the community to either agree or disagree, which they're equally welcome to.  Throughout the course of a discussion or debate, people's opinions may be affected, but if at the end of the debate everyone does not agree, that's fine.  Therefore, the difference between your post and mine was that I openly discussed my particular opinions, and invited people to respond with their own opinions.  I didn't insult any specific language or any specific programmers; the only individual that I singled out, Quigibo, was in a positive light, to complement his programming.  I felt that your characterization of one specific project, though it would have been welcome in a post at Cemetech where I could respond to your concerns and either contradict them or agree that Doors CS had those shortcomings, was instead intended as a hurtful response, even though it was hopefully in the heat of the moment, and was contrary to Omnimaga's anti-bashing rules.  To conclude, I feel that over and over in the past 9 years, the rules of Omnimaga (for example, no "bashing") have been attempted to be applied to the community at large (for example, criticizing people and sites for what they say on Cemetech, Revsoft, TIFreakware, MaxCoderz, TI-News.net, and ticalc.org, among others), and that this thread is a good example of that mistake.  Unfortunately, many such as lkj are inclined to agree with the original poster, even if they may not have gotten a chance to form their own independent opinions.

It didn't seem that bad, I don't see what everyone is getting so worked up over.

I agree, I thought we were holding a very respectful and intelligent discussion until this thread was brought to my attention. I'm saddened to see that from DJ_O's perspective, it was neither respectful, reasoned, nor intelligent.  DJ_O, please let me know if there's anything I can do to improve your view of the thread in question as well as of as 12-year community pillar such as myself, other than changing my opinion of Axe's role in the community as a language for writing games.

I guess once we finally got fed up with your nonsense and death threats and banned you, you needed to come back here.

Cross-posted from http://www.cemetech.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6709

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Ya, I think he's also been trying to go on Cemetech a little more too to try and find out what the deal with Omnimaga is over there.

There's no deal with Omnimaga at Cemetech any more than there's a deal with Cemetech here at Omnimaga. Meishe, I'd recommend that you take a look at Hot_Dog's excellent diplomacy thread. Sorry to hear about Raylin; hopefully the silver lining is that this will free him up to finish his Phantom Sanctuary book.