Author Topic: Our current problem II  (Read 10287 times)

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Offline Happybobjr

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Re: Our current problem II
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2011, 07:17:13 pm »
gay bashing really...  oh well.  (depends on where you live, may sound different. In general Indiana the really is said incredulously)

I foresee a new problem.  Hating on haters. :P
« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 07:18:26 pm by Happybobjr »
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Our current problem II
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2011, 07:18:31 pm »
Jkag the way you worded it definitively looked like you were bashing gays. Even if you just said gay marriage was wrong or something like that, the way you said it sounded like you were angry at the fact there were people that were gay in the first place. Not to mention afterward your comment saying you did not care if someone was offended or not was uncalled for and narrow-minded.

It was obvious saying the stuff you said would start drama. Either you be careful how you say things, or don't say it at all.

Also if you can't understand that some people are more sensitive than  others and can be offended by some statements like that (especially people who ARE gay/bi), then you don't belong on Omnimaga. Remember that not everyone speak english as their native language here and we will not tolerate close-minded members.

Also Jkag, forum leaving announcements and ragequits (including in signatures) in response to rule enforcements/misinterpreting stuff is against the forum rules:
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1: Flaming, bigotry, trolling or any other provocative or drama-starting comment aimed toward an user or group of users. Ragequits in response to rule enforcments are considered as starting drama.
If you chose to return one day, it may already be too late because of your signature.

And you are not one to be angry at me nor any of the forum members jkag. You contributed no fucking shit to this community, unlike a lot of other people here. Goodbye.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 07:43:02 pm by DJ_O »

Offline Juju

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Re: Our current problem II
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2011, 07:31:53 pm »
I wasn't here when it happened so I can't really tell, but nonetheless, gay bashing or not, you offended people, which is unacceptable. So yeah. Bye.

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Offline Happybobjr

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Re: Our current problem II
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2011, 07:33:30 pm »
I find that (juju's statement) a little harsh.
I was a trollish when i first got here. Now I am just annoying, not mean.
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Offline fb39ca4

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Re: Our current problem II
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2011, 07:42:27 pm »
gay bashing really...  oh well.  (depends on where you live, may sound different. In general Indiana the really is said incredulously)

I foresee a new problem.  Hating on haters. :P
^This

We should still be firm with people who break the rules, but not be overly harsh and make people want to leave here forever, that way, if they can decide if they want to change and come back. A while ago, there was a member who was making anti-American comments, and the matter was dealt with very calm and professionally,  resulting in a one week ban for him, and he came back and is a well respected member and one of the top posters today.

Offline shmibs

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Re: Our current problem II
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2011, 07:47:10 pm »
jkag, it looked to me (in yesterdays logs, which i read in their entirety) that you were voicing a very strongly held and inconsiderate opinion poorly masked behind a facade of civility. however, i recognise that you said you were going to drop the subject before it got out of hand. dj, then, after he said he was shutting up, was when you started to yell at him to shut up, which caused the situation to continue. at this point, jkag, you should have followed through with your word and left it at that. however, you continued on with sarcastic comments that were meant as targeted attacks. finally, there is the ragequitting post, which, as dj pointed out, is against the rules.

dj, as we all know, reacts strongly, and this isn't the best of character traits. however, when you are intentionally provoking him, as well as making mean-spirited comments which are insulting to a large portion of our userbase (including zeda, and myself as well) don't try to hide it and say that you have done nothing wrong. i am inclined to agree with you in that you may not be coming back.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 07:49:33 pm by shmibs »

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Re: Our current problem II
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2011, 07:48:25 pm »
My opinion?  Don't even tell your view on gay marriage.  Or anything else which is very controversial or has the possibility to hurt others.  Nothing bad will happen to you then, and nothing bad will happen to anything else.  While you may think you have free speech, you actually rarely do, and even when you do no one *cares* if you think gay marriage is right or wrong; this isn't a morality/politics forum, trust me, no one *cares*.  They will care though if you make the rivals to your opinion upset (and they won't care in a good way); hence follow these rules to be fine:

1: Don't talk about controversial topics in a way that shows how you feel about it.
2: Don't talk about controversial topics that will lead to debates and then to arguments that will hurt others.
3: Don't belittle others; you're not them, they're not you.  They'll have different opinions and they should be respected.
4: When in doubt just don't talk about controversial topics at all.  Switch the IRC subject to something productive.

These are Ashbad's ingredients to make everyone happy, reduce fights, and have a loving, friendly, community for people of all races, sexes, sexual orientations and general sexualities, lifestyles, levels of contributions to the site, levels of expertise in programming, etc.  I call it "The Happy Pasta Sauce Mix" -- and boy does it taste good.

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Re: Our current problem II
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2011, 07:49:30 pm »
Since this thread is rapidly denigrating into an anti-jkag thread, let's cut it here. I'm no more pleased at the comments than anyone else, but bashing the offender is almost as bad as the offender's bashing itself.
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Offline fb39ca4

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Re: Our current problem II
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2011, 07:50:47 pm »
I also realized, by reacting harshly to incidents, the rule breaker will just be inclined to break more rules, further alienating them from the community and making it far more likely they will leave for good.

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Our current problem II
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2011, 08:00:20 pm »
Well personally when someone tries to start drama here, I don't think he deserves much respect. After all, the person indirectly stated he was narrow-minded. While we welcome people around, narrow-minded people (such as people who cannot understand some people get offended easier at stuff) are not.

Also he is lucky those many rule breakings only counted as one rule breaking, otherwise his account would not even exist anymore.

Offline fb39ca4

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Re: Our current problem II
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2011, 08:05:41 pm »
Exactly my point on why we should not respond to bashing with more bashing. That will just lead the person to start more drama.

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Our current problem II
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2011, 08:08:54 pm »
Yeah I guess, but we shouldn't try to censor anyone who bring it up again in the future when someone asks what happened. Else it looks like we protect the person like ifshe never did anything bad and he is able to get away with it elsewhere. Then elsewhere, it can make the person make us look bad easier because over here there is no trace of his bad behavior due to people not being allowed to talk about it.

In conclusion we don't have to bash the person more, but we shouldn't try to protect the person either.

(On a side note this is not the first time jkag does something bad here. He was warned for something else last Winter too)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 08:09:26 pm by DJ_O »

Offline calcdude84se

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Re: Our current problem II
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2011, 08:20:40 pm »
1: Don't talk about controversial topics in a way that shows how you feel about it.
I'd weaken that to "Don't talk about controversial topics in a way that strongly criticizes another's views on it."
Quote
2: Don't talk about controversial topics that will lead to debates and then to arguments that will hurt others.
There's nothing IMO wrong with debates so long as they are civil. As soon as they leave civility, though, the debate should be immediately dropped.
Quote
3: Don't belittle others; you're not them, they're not you.  They'll have different opinions and they should be respected.
I agree about not belittling others. The antecedent of the second "they" in the second sentence is ambiguous (Does it refer to "others" or to "opinions"?), by the way; I'd say to respect others as long as they deserve it (If uncertain, err toward respect), and similarly for opinions, though there are many more opinions unworthy of respect. (Again, do err toward respect.)
Quote
4: When in doubt just don't talk about controversial topics at all.  Switch the IRC subject to something productive.
IRC? Productive? :P More seriously, I'd say just to move away immediately in case of problems. But don't bring up a topic that you aren't prepared to be reasonable and calm about it. Similarly, don't join in if you can't be reasonable and calm about it.
I refrain from saying anything other than this sentence about jkag.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 08:21:04 pm by calcdude84se »
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Our current problem II
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2011, 08:22:47 pm »
Well people need to remember to be careful to not say thigns that could start a fight. Saying gay marriage is bad and looking hostile towards gays by the way you say it is prone to start a fight, even if the attack is not direct.

Offline calcdude84se

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Re: Our current problem II
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2011, 08:31:30 pm »
I don't know how it was said; I'd find the statement "I believe that gay marriage is morally wrong" to be fine, although discussion might be forced to end after a few replies. Something like "Gay people are sinners" is more directly against the implicated people, and should not be said, though it might, with very careful guidance, be able to lead to something better. (And obviously the Westboro Baptist Church's "God hates fags" is an "apologize or else insta-ban" sort of thing.)
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