Author Topic: Bug Reports  (Read 466572 times)

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SirCmpwn

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Re: Bug Reports
« Reply #360 on: June 16, 2010, 05:07:12 pm »
If the command only allows non-BLOD values, then it probably is fine.  I may have overreacted, but my usual strategy when hearing about BLOD-style effects is to instantly stop it from being promoted.

Offline squidgetx

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Re: Bug Reports
« Reply #361 on: June 16, 2010, 05:08:15 pm »
I think it is the blue screen of death. Putting
Code: [Select]
DrawInv
Shade(63)
DispGraph
Repeat getKey
End
Shade(47)
before the suspect code lets you see the difference
I tested it on my calc lol (good decision? It hasn't exploded yet...)
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 05:10:16 pm by squidgetx »

Offline nemo

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Re: Bug Reports
« Reply #362 on: June 16, 2010, 05:09:11 pm »
i just tried it on my ti 84 + SE with a 2.41 OS and yes, it BLOD's. i was pretty quick to pull out a battery so no harm done to my calc.
EDIT: maybe Axe is updating the contrast values so fast in the repeat loop, that the LCD can't update itself fast enough, so it BLOD's?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 05:10:37 pm by nemo »


Offline calcdude84se

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Re: Bug Reports
« Reply #363 on: June 16, 2010, 05:10:57 pm »
So weird... I'm getting my calc an viewing the disassembly in calcsys to see how this happened (I still refuse to execute it)
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Offline squidgetx

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Re: Bug Reports
« Reply #364 on: June 16, 2010, 05:11:09 pm »
i was pretty quick to pull out a battery so no harm done to my calc.
I just hit clear and it exited to Mirage like normal...

i guess maybe it's a side effect of rapidly changing contrast? I remember this actually happened to me before while I was experimenting with combining contrast levels and grayscale to produce 8 lvl gray in Axe (it worked, but there's barely any practical use, and you can only display like 6 of the 8 shades at once anyway)
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 05:13:04 pm by squidgetx »

Offline calcdude84se

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Re: Bug Reports
« Reply #365 on: June 16, 2010, 05:18:32 pm »
Well, it doesn't happen in 0.2.3 (which I have, I'm waiting for 0.3.0 to upgrade), so I'm afraid I'm of no further use w/o the program generated by the most recent version
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Offline Quigibo

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Re: Bug Reports
« Reply #366 on: June 16, 2010, 05:24:23 pm »
I am going to talk to some experts in hardware and do some disassembly.  Can someone brave please test if adding a "Pause 2" after every contrast routine changes anything?  Also, is there any specific range of values that cause this?
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Offline Quigibo

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Re: Bug Reports
« Reply #367 on: June 16, 2010, 07:27:50 pm »
Okay, I did my research.  This is what appears to be happening.  I believe that there is a very short voltage spike between changing contrast from a very low value to a very high value and vise versa.  You don't see the screen turn blue normally becasue its so fast that you can't even see it.  However, if you alternate the screen very rapidly, the voltage spike appears often enough that it becomes very noticeable.  So this is a faulty hardware problem and there is nothing I can do about it.  I'll just have to trust that you're all being safe about using it.

Here were some clues that led me to my hypothesis:
  • You can't get the calculator to stay in a blue state unless the contrast is constantly changing
  • The degree of blueness is continuous.  There is not a single shade of blue.
  • The degree of blueness is directly proportional to the difference of the values you alternate between
  • The degree of blueness is inversely proportional to the amount of pause you have

All of these suggest that the calculator is NOT in test mode.  So this blue is actually less voltage on average than test mode, but that still doesn't mean its remotely safe.  It probably won't fry your calculator right away like the real test mode, but it can certainly damage it over a longer period.  I absolutely do not recommend exploiting this effect.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2010, 07:36:44 pm by Quigibo »
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Offline calcdude84se

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Re: Bug Reports
« Reply #368 on: June 16, 2010, 08:05:58 pm »
So it's not your fault. That's good to know. Is there any sense in adding a pause to the Shade( command, or is asking programmers to be considerate of this good enough?
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Offline Happybobjr

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Re: Bug Reports
« Reply #369 on: June 16, 2010, 08:11:28 pm »
lol i thought it was supposed to be blue!
i really did.
right when i started to learn axe i made a prog the displayed "hello world"
I had it go from 0 to the max contrast and back again. over and over again.
i don't think i need to mention it turned blue.
 thought that was supposed to do that.
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Offline Quigibo

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Re: Bug Reports
« Reply #370 on: June 16, 2010, 09:04:24 pm »
The pause would have to be fairly long, about 50-100μs and more if in 15MHz mode presumably (a little less than "Pause 2").  All it would do is slow down the command and increase the code size.  Since the normal use is not flashing the screen back and forth, its best left to the programmer to decide if they need the pause or not.
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Offline ztrumpet

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Re: Bug Reports
« Reply #371 on: June 16, 2010, 09:29:35 pm »
Wow, that's pretty odd.  Nice find Quigibo. :)

Offline nemo

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Re: Bug Reports
« Reply #372 on: June 16, 2010, 09:39:26 pm »
my contest entry earned me a RAM clear today, i know i was simply trying to get the level loading system working, and i ran the program and instead of my title screen greeting me, i got a RAM clear so i know it was at the beginning of the code. the only additions i made to the beginning were the following:
Code: [Select]
0->L+3->J
deltaList(46,59->String0

(i think i can post that since 1) it isn't very much code and 2) it won't be in my final axe entry, seeing as how that portion and 1/4 of my program is gone)

oh, and it did something to omnicalc's restoremem() feature, since that doesn't work anymore (it had a 100% success rate till now)
i doubt you can find any bugs according to what i can give you, but i thought i should at least note this


Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Bug Reports
« Reply #373 on: June 17, 2010, 01:23:00 am »
Okay, I did my research.  This is what appears to be happening.  I believe that there is a very short voltage spike between changing contrast from a very low value to a very high value and vise versa.  You don't see the screen turn blue normally becasue its so fast that you can't even see it.  However, if you alternate the screen very rapidly, the voltage spike appears often enough that it becomes very noticeable.  So this is a faulty hardware problem and there is nothing I can do about it.  I'll just have to trust that you're all being safe about using it.

Here were some clues that led me to my hypothesis:
  • You can't get the calculator to stay in a blue state unless the contrast is constantly changing
  • The degree of blueness is continuous.  There is not a single shade of blue.
  • The degree of blueness is directly proportional to the difference of the values you alternate between
  • The degree of blueness is inversely proportional to the amount of pause you have

All of these suggest that the calculator is NOT in test mode.  So this blue is actually less voltage on average than test mode, but that still doesn't mean its remotely safe.  It probably won't fry your calculator right away like the real test mode, but it can certainly damage it over a longer period.  I absolutely do not recommend exploiting this effect.
Wow exactly what I thought (well, I did not know what caused it but I had it happen on my 83+SE). When shutting down the calc from Mirage on 15 MHz calcs, notice how sometimes the screen quickly flashes to black then turns off. Same happens when reducing contrast to a low level quickly. Some xLIB games uses such method of alternating contrast quickly to create the blue effect. The way they were used is not dangerous, because it's not as bad as test mode, but if you leave the calc this way over a very long period, it could be.

Btw that trick doesn't work on the regular 83+ or emulators. It only works on real 83+SE, 84+ or 84+SE hardware.

Nice find Quigibo! I've been wondering since 2002 why my SE flashed quickly to black when turning it off most of the time

Offline Ikkerens

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Re: Bug Reports
« Reply #374 on: June 17, 2010, 02:41:29 am »
The new GrayScale routine (4lv at least) causes some flickerish bars at the bottom-left of the screen.
Emulator doesn't give the same effect.

See screenshot (I created an arrow with my über-paint skillz :P)

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