Post by: Halifax on August 25, 2007, 05:33:00 am
First off I would just like to thank Tifreak so much for his generous contribution to the further development of this project. He has provided me with space to host all of these images and that is helping to keep me organized. I would also like to thank Ranman and ATG who both have been helping me a great amount through all of this!
http://tifreakware.net/halifax
http://tifreakware.net
The rosters are subject to update through people suggesting players for their favorite team.
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Background
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NBA 68K is about creating a fully playable, fully graphical, and overall awesome game made for basketball. A 2v2 4-level grayscale game with key features including: An up-to-date roster, Real NBA player pics, Real NBA teams, and real NBA logos, with fluid in-game animations to complement the gameplay.
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Roster
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Dallas Mavericks: ??, ??
Houston Rockets: 
Yao Ming, ??Memphis Grizzlies: ??, ??
Oklahoma City Hornets: ??, ??
San Antonio Spurs: ??, ??
Golden State Warriors: ??, ??
Los Angeles Clippers: ??, ??
Los Angeles Lakers: 
Kobe Bryant, ??
Phoenix Suns: ??, ??Sacramento Kings: ??, ??
Denver Nuggets:
Allen Iverson, 
Carmelo AnthonyMinnesota Timberwolves:
Kevin Garnett, ??Portland Trail Blazers: ??, ??
Seattle Supersonics: ??, ??
Utah Jazz: ??, ??
Boston Celtics: ??, ??
New Jersey Nets:
Jason Kidd, ??
New York Knicks: ??, ??
Philadelphia 76ers: 
Kyle Korver, 
Andre IguodalaToronto Raptors: ??, ??
Chicago Bulls: ??, ??Cleveland Cavaliers: ??, ??
Detroit Pistons: ??, ??
Indiana Pacers: ??, ??Milwaukee Bucks: ??, ??
Alanta Hawks: ??, ??
Charlotte Bobcats: ??, ??
Miami Heat: 
Dwayne Wade, ??Orlando Magic: ??, ??
Washington Wizards: ??, ??
Key: ?? = undecided player. Request players!
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Misc. Images
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Final Notes
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I have all the player sprites converted that I need so far, and all the logos are done(I just didn't upload the other ones yet). Also I know some of the logos look wierd, but ATG(Aarenous The Great) is going to help remaster them and make them look better.
Now I am just getting and converting and making my own slew of animations that are to be used in the game. After this is done and updates are posted, then the coding begins on the game. This is the time at which I will begin to test out the physics and movement and also all the basketball movement algorithms.
Oh well I hope you enjoy this project as much as I have/and still am.
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on August 25, 2007, 11:30:00 am
but I really need to do something about the PNG thing on this forum because on the old board it worked fine <_<
anyway, this will make it to my TI-89t for sure when it comes out, altough i have no clue of the official basket ball rules since over canada we barely play x.x so I will be crappy :D
Post by: bfr on August 25, 2007, 12:41:00 pm
I don't know exactly how the game is going to be set up, but wouldn't three players per team be better? Or would that slow down the game to much or clutter the screen too much or something?
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on August 25, 2007, 12:46:00 pm
Post by: Halifax on August 25, 2007, 04:09:00 pm
Just making a speculation here, but in all reality there are about 3-40 animations I believe. Also the court rims and backboard are destructible, but re-generate when you go to the other side of the court.
I believe instead of having naive and AI in 3v3 and having to scroll the game horizontally and vertically, that I would rather keep the vertical size of the court to the vertical size of the screen. My choice for this is because no one wants to shoot a ball that goes off over top of the screen where they can't even see there player.
All these decisions are for the better, and I do believe 2v2 will be better than a 3v3 game.
More background for the game is coming later when I iron out the true technical details.
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on August 25, 2007, 04:34:00 pm
Post by: Madskillz on September 06, 2007, 03:09:00 pm
Post by: Halifax on September 07, 2007, 12:16:00 pm
PS: Is anybody really good at doing 4 level grayscale sprites by hand in areas such as 16x16 and 16x24??
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 07, 2007, 12:29:00 pm
*DJ Omnimaga
Post by: Madskillz on September 07, 2007, 05:03:00 pm
But Wally Szczerbiak was one of my favorites too back in the day. He was traded like in 06 I think.
Edit I could maybe work on some sprites, what for the team logos and pictures?
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 07, 2007, 05:17:00 pm
there used to be about 4 or 5 ppl here doing pa x.x
Post by: JonimusPrime on September 07, 2007, 05:38:00 pm
Post by: Halifax on September 07, 2007, 05:45:00 pm
Also to anyone who wants to attempt to do pixel art for this project. As a test I will need a 16(width)*24(height) 4 level grayscale image of a basketball player standing. It needs the usual of a basketball player. Shorts, jersey, sneakers, legs, etc.
TheStorm: Yeah I just use MS Paint.
Post by: Madskillz on September 07, 2007, 05:46:00 pm
I say you either make a uniform text to put onto the logos or forget about the text and just use the image and have the text somewhere else on the screen, because converting just looks too crappy.
Any how here is one I did in about 7 min.
Edit again: Is it top down or a side view similar to the sideview like in the icehockey game on the 68ks
Post by: Halifax on September 07, 2007, 05:49:00 pm
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 07, 2007, 05:50:00 pm
Post by: Madskillz on September 07, 2007, 05:54:00 pm
Post by: Halifax on September 07, 2007, 05:56:00 pm
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 07, 2007, 06:02:00 pm
Post by: Halifax on September 07, 2007, 06:05:00 pm
And a quick note. The Game Gear does have a smaller resolution than the 89T, and it also ran on a z80.
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 07, 2007, 06:06:00 pm
Post by: Halifax on September 07, 2007, 06:07:00 pm
Man how did artists back then make such great sprites for games like Street Fighter and stuff. They have shadowing, and all these other cool effects.
EDIT: One thing I noticed is that Midway took reference shots of guys in costumes doing all the moves for Mortal Kombat, and then they scaled the images down. That is a smart idea I think. I might try that.
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 07, 2007, 06:09:00 pm
Post by: Madskillz on September 08, 2007, 05:16:00 pm
I think all of them are ok except for perhaps the text in the pistons, any thoughts on that?
There are also a bunch that we can keep that you did, I dont think these ones need to be touched at all:
-Houston Rockets
-Heat
-the suns just need a little touch up and it will be good as is.
-same with the Mavericks.
I will finish up a good majority of the other logos probably tomorrow after work and then on tuesday night I think I can have them all done.
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 08, 2007, 05:57:00 pm
Post by: Halifax on September 08, 2007, 06:13:00 pm
Yeah I do like how the rockets one turned out. But thanks a lot man you are really helping out! You definitely have mad pixel art skills! :thumb:
EDIT: I like the basketball for the Pistons though. Keep that.
EDIT2: Can you also touch up Los Angeles Clippers, if that isn't too much work, please.
Post by: Halifax on September 08, 2007, 08:15:00 pm
So any comments??
Also haha last night I had a dream about getting a cease-and-desist from the NBA because NBA 68K used player likeliness without a license. o.o
I hope that doesn't really happen lol.
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 09, 2007, 12:29:00 am
And about cease and desist letter did u saw MaxCoderz 2005 april fools joke about Metroid? That scared the hell outta me because back then I was also working on a Metroid game and had a full Zelda released. I hope it doesn't happen though because it did with Tenniskid493 when he worked on Golden Sun: The Chosen One back in 2005 (he had to rename all his char and change the name to The Chosen One).
Post by: Halifax on September 09, 2007, 11:10:00 am
Post by: Speler on September 09, 2007, 11:43:00 am
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 09, 2007, 11:54:00 am
Post by: Halifax on September 09, 2007, 01:56:00 pm
EDIT: Oh yeah and then I have to add a 3 second violation arc, and the rim.
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 09, 2007, 03:43:00 pm
Post by: Halifax on September 10, 2007, 09:22:00 am
Post by: Liazon on September 10, 2007, 11:15:00 am
Post by: Halifax on September 10, 2007, 12:10:00 pm
Compare for yourself ;)
.Court(All anti-aliasing taken out):
Post by: Madskillz on September 10, 2007, 04:55:00 pm
Man there are a whole lot of teams on here! :)
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 10, 2007, 05:45:00 pm
Post by: Madskillz on September 12, 2007, 11:43:00 am
Post by: Halifax on September 13, 2007, 08:26:00 am
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 13, 2007, 12:10:00 pm
Post by: Liazon on September 13, 2007, 12:25:00 pm
Post by: Halifax on September 13, 2007, 01:59:00 pm
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 13, 2007, 02:32:00 pm
Post by: Madskillz on September 18, 2007, 04:15:00 pm
I will do a few more then show you guys so you can judge how they are going so far.
edit: Well here is 16 of them any comments are welcome!
Oh I know the bucks look like a smiling deer, that may need some touching up.
Post by: Liazon on September 19, 2007, 03:03:00 pm
though something's odd w/ the p in pistons. Everything else seems pretty consistent.
the lakers ball looks a bit flat on ones isde.
ya, nice work Madskillz! :)
Post by: Halifax on September 20, 2007, 08:57:00 am
If you want career or season play, then you will have to wait until after the NBA 68K release. I can't disclose many details, but rumors have it a NBA 68K: The Life will be coming. :)
Post by: Liazon on September 20, 2007, 11:14:00 am
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 20, 2007, 12:08:00 pm
two planned games? Cool!
Post by: Halifax on September 20, 2007, 01:55:00 pm
Liazon: Have you ever played NBA 07: The Life or NBA 08: The Life vol. 2?? It is basically all just a career mode, with stats keeping, and many other aspects that are undisclosed currently.
Thing is. You will have to choose between one or the other. :/
Season was striped because it just simply wouldn't fit, and I think it is right for now.
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 20, 2007, 05:15:00 pm
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 23, 2007, 07:24:00 pm
Halifax:
ATG:
I think ATG version would fit pretty well :)
Post by: Halifax on September 24, 2007, 08:28:00 am
Oh my freaking God! I think I threw up when I saw ATG's title screen!!!(and yes it was missing because I had to get off the computer, and finish my homework)
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 24, 2007, 09:08:00 am
j/k :D
don't do like I did in 2002-2003 and program 10 hours per day (meaning 70 hours a week) instead of doing homework (altough I did half of them during classes when teacher was talking lol) and 3 years later be burned out cuz you spent all your ideas on 5-60 calc games :paf:
I see lol, I figured you didn't saw ATG screenshot yet so I posted it here in case you see it first, I'm glad you're still alive tho :P
btw yours was nice too, but I prefer the one ATG made because there was more stuff in it ^^
Post by: Halifax on September 24, 2007, 12:29:00 pm
I bet you will flip out when you see the final title screen :P
, it will most definitely not be static, that's for sure.EDIT: Sadly it has come to my knowledge that his basketball is not 4 level grayscale either.
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 24, 2007, 12:35:00 pm
Post by: Halifax on September 24, 2007, 12:44:00 pm
, but we will see how the outcome looks. I will try to get it converted tonight.
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 24, 2007, 12:45:00 pm
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 24, 2007, 05:55:00 pm
Post by: Halifax on September 24, 2007, 11:28:00 pm
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 25, 2007, 02:20:00 am
Post by: Halifax on September 25, 2007, 08:56:00 am
Just curious, because after I finished these vector algorithms I realized I suck at 68K ASM. :P
So can anyone spot any optimizations on this?c1-->
| CODE | ||||||||||||
| ec1 vec2w vec2w_new(u16 x, u16 y) { Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 25, 2007, 09:02:00 am Post by: Liazon on September 25, 2007, 12:51:00 pm which also means room for insane optimizing. Post by: Halifax on September 25, 2007, 02:37:00 pm Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 25, 2007, 02:52:00 pm Post by: bfr on September 25, 2007, 03:01:00 pm Using the inline assembler seems to be annoying, having to have a tab preceding each instruction and a "\n" after each instruction. Also, what does the instruction "mulu" do? I've never seen that before. o.o
Post by: Liazon on September 26, 2007, 10:31:00 am
actually, i think that's how most assembly usually is. but the way he's writing it it out now is pseudo-C-ish. He's writing functions w/ inline ASM. The inputs are simply which registers stuff gets loaded into before the subroutine/function runs. All he needs to do is manipulate the register and return a value... I think. Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 26, 2007, 11:36:00 am Post by: Halifax on September 26, 2007, 01:15:00 pm @bfr: mulu stands for MUltipLy Unsigned which is the conjugate to muls @Liazon: Basically, except nothing is inserted around my code because I follow standards. d0,d1,d2,a0,a1 are all throw away registers which means that you should never count on those registers ever being saved. If I didn't follow the standards, then yeah it would probably generate some push's and pop's (move) Either way I could have just put those into '.s' files and included them in the build, but I like inline assembly better because it is easier to maintain. Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 26, 2007, 01:33:00 pm CH DP "Hello PA "Press Enter CH WH 1 GK->Z IF Z=45 TH ST End ....etc... instead of the current form Clearhome Display "Hello Pause "Press Enter Clearhome While 1 Getkey->Z If Z=45 Then Stop End ....etc... Post by: Halifax on September 26, 2007, 03:19:00 pm mpyhhau shlqbybi :) The first person to figure out what those two instructions mean for PS3 SPU Assembly will be one of a limited few to receive the NBA 68K demo. ;) So be the first!(The information is readily available on the Internet. You just need to know the right place to look.) Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 26, 2007, 04:15:00 pm 
Post by: Liazon on September 26, 2007, 06:14:00 pm
QuoteBegin
Why instructions have to be so esoteric is a wonder. Oh well. Didn't see any registers so I guess it's more like: ra*rb + rt -> rt ra*2^rb -> rt which ends up being ra*2^rb -> rt anyways. @xlibman: I wonder if you could change the instructions by changing the table file the assembler uses. At the very least, I think it'd be neat if you could simply use #define to change everything. But ya 68k and x86sem to be more straight forward in terms of naming. Except i don't think i remember what lea, if that's an instruction stands for. Regardless, I think the z80 ASM community has come a long way for sure :) Post by: Halifax on September 27, 2007, 08:29:00 am @Liazon: Great job! You will be one of the lucky few to recieve the NBA 68K beta.(More contests to come) And yes 'lea' is an instruction which stands for 'Load Effective Address' P.S. Yes you can simply change the name of the instruction in the table file(.tab) Basically Liazon those are all just defines, and you could do it that way although it may increase your compile time by like .0001 seconds :P It won't be that much slower because defines are second-level to assembler instructions which means it searches assembly instructions first, and then defines. It does this all with binary search too(This is based off of SPASM source)
Post by: Liazon on September 27, 2007, 11:10:00 am although i like ASM the way it is, I have to agree with xlibman that most of the time, the code part is not very wide at all. it's just short 2-4 letter instructions with 1-2 character arguments, with some occasionally large label names. and with SPASM, you could use local labels and then it gets even shorter. data is usually large arrays that are pretty wide. lol, now i see why the PS3 instructions have those names: mpyhhau Multiply high high add unsigned shlqbybi Shift left quadword by bytes from bit shift count Post by: Halifax on September 27, 2007, 01:55:00 pm Hey we could do that. We should write a custom Table file! Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 27, 2007, 03:47:00 pm Post by: Halifax on September 29, 2007, 05:35:00 pm Answer the following question: Assuming that 4D people are real. Could a 3D being lock up a safe ,with the craziest technology ever, and put chains around, and every thing else, with money inside. And then could a 4D person put its "hand" inside the safe without ever touching any of the security, or even the walls of the safe, and steal the money in the safe? Post by: Ranman on September 30, 2007, 12:55:00 pm Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 30, 2007, 01:02:00 pm Post by: Radical Pi on September 30, 2007, 01:38:00 pm
Answer: Yes. Too bad I don't have a 68K calc :rolleyes:  Post by: Halifax on September 30, 2007, 03:17:00 pm Post by: Madskillz on September 30, 2007, 04:32:00 pm Post by: Halifax on October 01, 2007, 07:59:00 am One more contest will be directed here though.Also sorry DJ_Omnimaga, and Ranman for not seeing your posts.(It didn't show up as unread) Here is the explanation: Dimensions are based on perpendiculars and although the 4th dimension has not been discovered it can be easily attributed to other things. For example a 2 dimensional world has two axes that expand on forever to make a plane. Now the 3rd dimension just adds a perpendicular axis to this 2nd dimension which means to get to the 1st dimension you would have to go through the 2nd. So think of it this way the 4th dimension is perpendicular to the 3rd dimension. ;) That is hard to think about, and impossible to draw since we can only see, write, and think in the 3rd dimension.Onto the answer to my question about the safe. First know this: 4th dimension is to the 3rd dimension as the 3rd dimension is to the 2nd dimension Now with that in mind. How would we take money out of a 2 dimensional person's safe. Well the safe could only look like this(with money "="): +---+ +==+ +---+ So now how can you take the money out of that locked safe up there? Well just pull it out perpendicularly to the 2D guy's world, and he won't even notice it is gone! Locks and all. :) (END) Ranman: To answer your question. We do not know what constitutes a 4D person, but it is thought that if a 4D person were to walk through this dimension we would only see spheres hanging in the air. Just as a 2D person would only see slices(lines) of a 3D person walking through its dimension. Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 01, 2007, 08:10:00 am Post by: Liazon on October 01, 2007, 10:11:00 am Post by: Madskillz on October 15, 2007, 11:30:00 am Anyways I am getting close to having them all wrapped up logo wise. Here are is the current line up: (There on the far right) I got about 6-7 left to do, I think. Feedback is always welcome. I am gonna push to get these done this week. Sprite work will start probably about a week after I finish the logos, but I gotta get some of my z80 projects updated so it may not be until november sometime. What were the sizes on the character sprites again? Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 15, 2007, 11:42:00 am because last time I talked to him on IRC he said he diddn't but he seems more into computer C programming now, and usually when it happens (from experience in the community) the person ditch calcs :S I hope he comes back on this project though. Maybe he was just waiting for the logo sprites This is awesome sprites Madskillz, nice job on them, but don't make the toronto one last one in your todo list else I will murder all non canadians on this forum tomorrow :gotosucks:  j/k :P
Post by: JonimusPrime on October 15, 2007, 11:44:00 am
Post by: Speler on October 15, 2007, 11:52:00 am Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 15, 2007, 11:54:00 am
Post by: Speler on October 15, 2007, 11:58:00 am Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 15, 2007, 11:58:00 am Post by: TIfanx1999 on October 15, 2007, 12:17:00 pm Post by: Speler on October 15, 2007, 12:17:00 pm Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 15, 2007, 12:26:00 pm Post by: JonimusPrime on October 15, 2007, 01:04:00 pm Post by: Halifax on October 15, 2007, 01:11:00 pm
Yes it had a "GPU" that was more like just hardware aided graphics helpers and stuff. Such as memory to keep the sprites, and a memory mapped LCD plus other things that are more suited for games. Also it had a bigger resolution than the TI 83+. Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 15, 2007, 02:49:00 pm and halifax i think you missed madskillz sprites and the rest of the posts before the one you quoted x.x Post by: Liazon on October 15, 2007, 02:55:00 pm in this context, we're kinda generalizing the use of the acronym GPU to include non-graphics card graphics hardware. In many ways, the game gear operates like the NDS/GBA/GBC/GB. A separate piece of hardware reads certain areas of dedicated RAM and displays graphics accordingly, without the CPU needing to do anything. Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 15, 2007, 02:58:00 pm Post by: Liazon on October 15, 2007, 03:05:00 pm This isn't too bad on 86 or 89 because their screens automatically read a special part of RAM and the screen reflects the data there. So those calcs don't waste all that time waiting for the screen to update correctly. You can simply spend 4 cycles rewriting one byte to change one pixel. On 83+/84+, you have to spend at least 70 cycles to change one pixel because the info has to be sent to the calc. Keep in mind too that handhelds have built in color/gs, so the sprite data is all you need to set a color. no messed up 2 layer thing for 4 level gs. and no switching layers every other frame to create gs. the screen has it already :)
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 15, 2007, 03:15:00 pm Post by: Liazon on October 15, 2007, 03:28:00 pm To make a raycaster w/ the stripped processor would have been hard because you would have to render every pixel at 30 fps, which is not a lot of time. By the time you finish redoing every pixel, a second might have already gone by. Not to mention that the hardware updates at a rate of 60 fps, which means you have horrible artifacts. I know someone on GBAdev.org was working on a GBA raycaster, which looked feasible. with the DS, you program as if it were 3D on a comp, so it really doesn't matter as much anymore. Although you can only have one screen be 3D, not both, since the hardware was designed to only 3Dize one screen at a time. Although I think it'd be cool to get 3D on the other screen using the processor. Maybe you could get the ARM7 to work in parallel and update the second screen. I'm not sure, but that might be cool. Although one 3D screen works out pretty fine :)
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 15, 2007, 03:36:00 pm Post by: TIfanx1999 on October 15, 2007, 03:42:00 pm . Game gear screen res. was 160x146, Gameboy was 160x144, the TI-89's is 160x100 and the Ti 83 family's res.(for comparison) is 96x 64
Post by: Ranman on October 15, 2007, 03:47:00 pm Post by: TIfanx1999 on October 15, 2007, 03:57:00 pm 
Post by: Madskillz on October 15, 2007, 04:09:00 pm Speaking of Doom II for the GBA, did you all know that that is like a rare game I guess. Heh, I knew it was tough to find in stores around me...i have a mint complete with box and instruction GBA doom 2 sitting around here. My advice is to keep it, it will only be worth more if you have it! :)
Post by: Liazon on October 16, 2007, 01:05:00 pm too bad raycasting = no pointing up and down. Post by: Halifax on October 16, 2007, 01:42:00 pm
No I didn't miss his sprites. I have talked to him in private about matters with the sprites(nothing bad ;) all good)And yes basically a GPU is no different from a CPU except that it is meant to take the load off of the CPU, and it is multicore. This is why the CELL is generally compared to being a GPU. Speaking of that, check out this cool link. *Halifax Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 16, 2007, 02:23:00 pm I am really looking forward for this ^^
Post by: Halifax on October 16, 2007, 02:34:00 pm Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 16, 2007, 02:39:00 pm Now get to work! (We need whips here...) j/k I'm not that evil :P
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