Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on December 23, 2013, 02:47:30 pm

Actually in DCS's defense, you can also run programs from the home screen too.

True - I don't want to do DCS down - it's only my opinion. Why would someone put a 49k app (compared to zStart's 16k) on his calc when he doesn't come close to needing all the functionality. The idea of having a single app that combines the functionality of many other libs and shells - and adding more, like a GUI - is great as such, but I simply find memory more valuable when I think of all the stuff I don't need. Therefore I simply don't have DCS on my calc and thus I don't program anything that uses its libraries.
There might be people out there for who DSC is just the right thing, but I don't belong to those.

I know, and I respect it. I also think you have some good points, especially size-wise. DCS is a shell for a group of people and it really depends of people's needs, kinda like Mirage back then. Mirage was small, but unfortunately it crashes a lot on newer OSes and calcs, so now Zstart is more handy for those people. I myself prefer DCS since I need its xLIB/Celtic/Omnicalc, Homerun and Ion/Mos compatibility, but of course someone who don't need the Basic libs will inevitably prefer Zstart.

Well, I thought about it, and I can basically sum up why I don't use libraries in two points:

• I don't like to have dependencies (especially when the dependency is bigger than my program)
• I get a sense of pride from writing my own routines

It really all comes down to the fact that I want to be able to deliver a single file to people that will run all by itself. I'm ok with requiring a shell to run because almost all asm games do, but I don't want people to have to install a specific shell.


Also, a reason people may not want to use the DCS GUI libs is because they want to remain 100% basic. I mean, if you're going to use DCS for your GUI, why stop there? Why not go full on and make a completely hybrid asm/basic game? I think it's the idea of not using any asm resources that keeps people away from the GUI.

Yeah in my case, I prefer to write everything rather than use libs, but of course when it comes to stuff impossible to do in BASIC and the fact I don't want to code ASM, then I have no choice. :P

Note that all those arguments I (and others) used don't apply to the CSE because

• There is enough space to put DoorsCS three times and still have space for programs
• It's the only available shell for now so no one has another one (maybe people don't have it but just state that in the readme)
• There is no annoying mouse
• There is no zStart (thepenguin77, if you read this... :P jk, I know you already talked about that)

And I also found another argument why there are not so many programs using that GUI. Just because DoorsCS is "new". Well, it is not recent, but still the latest shell (zStart is not only a shell) so it is normal that a lot of programs, especially those made before it arrived, were made without using its GUI.

well i don't frequently code in basic, but if i do, i like to have the capabilities of making a windows styled program.
i got a ti84+SE so i don't have to worry about not having enough space for my programs. so i can understand somebody wouldn't like to have an 4 page app of which 3 aren't necessary.

• DoorsCS is (was) too big for French people with a regular 83+ (160KB of Flash, with 16KB taken by French language and 16KB taken by the Periodic table, you can guess that DoorsCS is (was) hard to fit in with some programs)
• A lot of people read readmes where it's written "Ion compatible shell", then download Ion
• A lot of people read readmes where it's written "Ion compatible shell like MirageOS", then download MirageOS
• A lot of people don't read readmes where it's written "needs DoorsCS for the GUI" and will just think "dat game sux" and review it bad so coders try to avoid dependancies
• And that last argument is only my opinion but I prefer zStart to DoorsCS so I use it instead, and that prevents me from using DoorsCS's GUI.

I had a Ti-83+ (SE I think) bought in Quebec back in the day and I installed Doors and a couple of programs with no problem on it, so that argument of *you had no space left on a French calculator* seems incorrect to me.

Yeah the 83+SE had the same amount of FLash as the 84+SE. On the TI-83 Plus (black model) and on the 2009 incarnation of the TI-83 Plus.Fr, Doors CS takes 30% of the entire archive (even more than most games). It isn't a problem on the new TI-83 Plus.Fr that had an USB port added, because those have 1.5 MB of Flash like the TI-84 Plus Silver Edition.

Btw LunarFire don't you think it sucks that the TI-83 Plus.Fr USB was never released in Quebec? (Instead, they gave us an old TI-83 Plus with Français pre-installed on it, the regular 84+ costs $20 more and the 84+SE is discontinued. Ok we have the color one but still, in France they now get the TI-84+SE (renamed to TI-83 Plus.Fr USB) for the price of a regular 83+ )

Yeah I would recommend an online store, because at Staples and Future Shop the regular price is $149.99-159.99. There are $119.99-129.99 sales at the start of school year but I bet you could find a cheaper one on Amazon or Ebay (although beware of high shipping fees).