Author Topic: Why aren't there so many programs using the dcs gui lib?  (Read 8820 times)

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Offline TheCoder1998

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Why aren't there so many programs using the dcs gui lib?
« on: December 23, 2013, 10:02:33 am »
yeah why?
together with xlib and celticIII it has a huge potential!
the gui could be awesome for math programs
what do you guys think of it?

Offline Sorunome

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Re: Why aren't there so many programs using the dcs gui lib?
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2013, 10:06:15 am »
Because most people out there rather find xLib and MirageOS than DoorsCS.

So yeah, i did play a bit around wiht the DCS GUI lib, and it is pretty awesome :)

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Re: Why aren't there so many programs using the dcs gui lib?
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2013, 10:14:02 am »
I always found the mouse based gui more of a nice proof of concept than super handy but that could be just me
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Offline Hayleia

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Re: Why aren't there so many programs using the dcs gui lib?
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2013, 10:16:21 am »
  • DoorsCS is (was) too big for French people with a regular 83+ (160KB of Flash, with 16KB taken by French language and 16KB taken by the Periodic table, you can guess that DoorsCS is (was) hard to fit in with some programs)
  • A lot of people read readmes where it's written "Ion compatible shell", then download Ion
  • A lot of people read readmes where it's written "Ion compatible shell like MirageOS", then download MirageOS
  • A lot of people don't read readmes where it's written "needs DoorsCS for the GUI" and will just think "dat game sux" and review it bad so coders try to avoid dependancies
  • And that last argument is only my opinion but I prefer zStart to DoorsCS so I use it instead, and that prevents me from using DoorsCS's GUI.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 10:18:08 am by Hayleia »
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Offline TheCoder1998

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Re: Why aren't there so many programs using the dcs gui lib?
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2013, 10:19:41 am »
i know i said this earlier but i can use dcs alongside zstart just fine
maybe you should change some of zstarts settings?
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Offline Hayleia

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Re: Why aren't there so many programs using the dcs gui lib?
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2013, 10:21:55 am »
i know i said this earlier but i can use dcs alongside zstart just fine
maybe you should change some of zstarts settings?
I know that, but it is not the problem. I just don't want to "waste" 49152 bytes for a GUI that I could (re)code in my programs for less than 1000 bytes. Moreover, using DoorsCS would prevent my friends from using my program due to the lack of memory (they don't have the new 83+.fr USB).
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Offline TheCoder1998

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Re: Why aren't there so many programs using the dcs gui lib?
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2013, 10:22:36 am »
oh okay i understand  ;D

EDIT: i've made a program for trigonometry using the DCS gui
it is in dutch but if there is demand for it i could make a translated version
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 10:48:23 am by TheCoder1998 »
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Re: Why aren't there so many programs using the dcs gui lib?
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2013, 11:11:34 am »
The GUI can be pretty handy if you happen to use xLIB and Celtic too, as it will shrink down your program size while not forcing you to install Celtic, plus you can then run ASM programs. But yeah, this can be problematic for those who don't play games or only want to use one program, especially if they have the older 83+ like we have in North America.

Also, over here a lot of people prefer to create their own GUIs anyway.

Offline Matrefeytontias

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Re: Why aren't there so many programs using the dcs gui lib?
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2013, 12:52:30 pm »
... for a GUI that I could (re)code in my programs for less than 1000 bytes.
Excuse me ? You saying that shows that you didn't take a good look to the GUI API. Don't talk about something if you don't know it. Take a look at all of these functions and tell me if you can do any better with Axe than Kerm did with ASM :

http://dcs.cemetech.net/index.php/Developers%27_SDK
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 12:53:24 pm by Matrefeytontias »

Offline Hayleia

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Re: Why aren't there so many programs using the dcs gui lib?
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2013, 02:28:31 pm »
I don't see where I stated that I would recode all the functions that the GUI offers in 1000 bytes. Of course my program would be limited to the functions I need. But I don't even think that would be a problem because I personally think (and it seems that aeTIos thinks that too) that the mouse is beautiful but annoying. And with a lot of simplifications (like no windows on top of others (so no complicated stack system), which "never" happens in a program anyway or you only have 2 of them and you can find a workaround (like a simple RecallPic)), yeah, I can have my GUI (and once again, not the real GUI) in less than 1000 bytes.

It is the same reason why I use zStart, not because it does all what DoorsCS do, just that it does what I need in less space (and does it faster), and no more.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 02:30:30 pm by Hayleia »
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Offline TheCoder1998

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Re: Why aren't there so many programs using the dcs gui lib?
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2013, 02:31:43 pm »
i just don't use the acceleration function with the mouse, it makes it run smoother for me  ;D
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Offline MGOS

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Re: Why aren't there so many programs using the dcs gui lib?
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2013, 02:44:20 pm »
Many of the GUI functions DCS provides are quite awesome indeed - but like Hayleia pointed out, you can simply code those yourself depending on your needs. And I still don't like to use any shell at all - imho I think that a mouse/cursor system and a calc don't fit together. I don't see any advantage if having a mousecursor when you don't have a mouse or a touchpad attached (unless you own Kerm's ultimate calc). It is rather annoying and slow.
Other shells still have to be launched as an app to work - and when you run them on power on, you need to exit them when you want to do some calculations. I might be a fusspot but every button click you can save is worth saving it. So the only shell to fulfill these needs is zStart:: you can still use the good old program menu and run your asm programs without fiddling around in the catalog - and it provides other developers features I can't imagine things without.
I know we're talking about two different things right here - but DCS and its GUI belong together imo and needing multiple apps (a shell for executing and organizing - and a library for your graphics stuff) simply take a lot of your valuable memory.
On the other hand, since Axe became that popular, the number of TI-Basic programmers dropped and therefore TI-Basic libs cease with them.

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Re: Why aren't there so many programs using the dcs gui lib?
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2013, 02:47:30 pm »
Actually in DCS's defense, you can also run programs from the home screen too.

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Re: Why aren't there so many programs using the dcs gui lib?
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2013, 03:16:00 pm »
Actually in DCS's defense, you can also run programs from the home screen too.
True - I don't want to do DCS down - it's only my opinion. Why would someone put a 49k app (compared to zStart's 16k) on his calc when he doesn't come close to needing all the functionality. The idea of having a single app that combines the functionality of many other libs and shells - and adding more, like a GUI - is great as such, but I simply find memory more valuable when I think of all the stuff I don't need. Therefore I simply don't have DCS on my calc and thus I don't program anything that uses its libraries.
There might be people out there for who DSC is just the right thing, but I don't belong to those.

Offline thepenguin77

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Re: Why aren't there so many programs using the dcs gui lib?
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2013, 09:45:10 pm »
Well, I thought about it, and I can basically sum up why I don't use libraries in two points:
  • I don't like to have dependencies (especially when the dependency is bigger than my program)
  • I get a sense of pride from writing my own routines


It really all comes down to the fact that I want to be able to deliver a single file to people that will run all by itself. I'm ok with requiring a shell to run because almost all asm games do, but I don't want people to have to install a specific shell.


Also, a reason people may not want to use the DCS GUI libs is because they want to remain 100% basic. I mean, if you're going to use DCS for your GUI, why stop there? Why not go full on and make a completely hybrid asm/basic game? I think it's the idea of not using any asm resources that keeps people away from the GUI.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 09:45:36 pm by thepenguin77 »
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