Author Topic: nCraft (3D minecraft-like game for the nspire)  (Read 113842 times)

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Offline AzNg0d1030

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Re: nCraft (3D minecraft-like game for the nspire)
« Reply #120 on: September 21, 2012, 04:57:08 pm »
I tried it more in depth now, fell down and noticed that there are resources underground O.O

Also, while I was at it, I thought about something that would improve it in my opnion (and of course, it is only my opninion). I think that the controls would be a lot better if the touchpad didn't need any click, like in mViewer's browser. I mean using the touchpad like a touchpad without pressing it, not like buttons :)
I had that in mind as well.  I haven't tried it yet, but I'm not sure I'm thinking of the same thing as Hayleia. Do you mean the touchpad for the looking like a computer mouse (as in just touch the pad and it moves like a mouse like in nDoom)? That's what I would do. Implement the touchpad as a mouse to look around and maybe something like the number keys for moving.  The touchpad is awkward for moving, whether you click it, or like in nDoom where you could move slightly awkwardly with it.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 04:57:48 pm by AzNg0d1030 »
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Offline Darl181

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Re: nCraft (3D minecraft-like game for the nspire)
« Reply #121 on: September 21, 2012, 06:10:28 pm »
One thing that's worth keeping in mind is since it works on grayscale models, clickpad support should be kept. Idk how ndless goes about it, but maybe if using the touchpad breaks on the clickpad it can be an option? Personally I'm not too fond of how touchy ndoom is :P but to each their own.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 06:27:40 pm by Darl181 »
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Offline annoyingcalc

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Re: nCraft (3D minecraft-like game for the nspire)
« Reply #122 on: September 21, 2012, 06:55:51 pm »
Adding and removing blocks is off course the next item on my todo list :)
But it requires 3D raycasting, and I don't know much about that... I'll do research this week-end...
Yay!

Yeah, I agree that the white background feels a bit empty. If adding a background is too slow, maybe just coloring it in blue would fill the blank pretty well already ? :)
Later maybe you could implement a choice of color? or texture packs :P
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Offline AaroneusTheGreat

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Re: nCraft (3D minecraft-like game for the nspire)
« Reply #123 on: September 21, 2012, 10:06:58 pm »
After that will you add the ability to be able to place +destroy blocks (maybe jumping too)
Adding and removing blocks is off course the next item on my todo list :)
But it requires 3D raycasting, and I don't know much about that... I'll do research this week-end...
You should look into how raycasting is done for drawing maps in a raycaster (only the ray cast, not the drawing), then try to add the third dimension. This will be the easyest way, and it's fully possible because of the block-based world. Raycasting as used in 3D computer games often uses more complex calculations and search for polygons, which would also make it harder to use.

Raycasting is actually a polygon-less system. It usually treats the world as blocks and then renders the blocks based on a vertical slice scheme instead of polygons. It was a way to avoid the 3 dimensional calculations and stick with 2d calculations. It cut the processing by orders of magnitude. Look up the original raycasting scheme used in Wolfenstein for an example, and a more complex version is used in Doom called a BSD tree Raycasting engine.

Someone described one earlier, BSD tree engines use a sector system to cut down the calculations. The sector system in addition to raycasting's nature takes care of all the backface culling for you, due to the math, and it also culls the blocks that are out of your range of vision.

There's really nothing stopping you from using a BSD tree engine instead of a full 3d engine in this type of game, because everything is made of right angles anyways  (orthagonal i think?) and raycasting is best suited for blocks that have only right angles.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 10:08:04 pm by AaroneusTheGreat »

Offline calc84maniac

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Re: nCraft (3D minecraft-like game for the nspire)
« Reply #124 on: September 21, 2012, 10:29:41 pm »
I don't think BSD trees are supposed to work well in games with dynamic maps (i.e. blocks can be created or destroyed).

Edit: Hmm, technically couldn't this entire thing be implemented as a voxel engine with really large voxels? :P
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 10:35:46 pm by calc84maniac »
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Offline AaroneusTheGreat

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Re: nCraft (3D minecraft-like game for the nspire)
« Reply #125 on: September 21, 2012, 10:50:38 pm »
You're right, traditionally they aren't designed for it, but using the sector system to your advantage, you may be able to get away with it. Now a standard orthagonal raycaster is very well suited for dynamic maps, if you can use the other raycasting techniques with it, and avoid the bsd tree entirely, you may be able to use a raycaster to do it all. Take a look at the raycaster that was used in the port of Doom for nSpire (not the source port, the full rebuild) and you'll see what i mean.

The Voxel idea sounds like the best one yet. it would really be well suited for this style of game. I suspected for a while that the original used a mix of voxel rendering and polygons, but i don't know for sure, it looks suspiciously like that.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 10:51:56 pm by AaroneusTheGreat »

Offline Hayleia

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Re: nCraft (3D minecraft-like game for the nspire)
« Reply #126 on: September 22, 2012, 01:13:16 am »
I tried it more in depth now, fell down and noticed that there are resources underground O.O

Also, while I was at it, I thought about something that would improve it in my opnion (and of course, it is only my opninion). I think that the controls would be a lot better if the touchpad didn't need any click, like in mViewer's browser. I mean using the touchpad like a touchpad without pressing it, not like buttons :)
I had that in mind as well.  I haven't tried it yet, but I'm not sure I'm thinking of the same thing as Hayleia. Do you mean the touchpad for the looking like a computer mouse (as in just touch the pad and it moves like a mouse like in nDoom)? That's what I would do. Implement the touchpad as a mouse to look around and maybe something like the number keys for moving.  The touchpad is awkward for moving, whether you click it, or like in nDoom where you could move slightly awkwardly with it.
Yes, I mean just the touchpad for looking and there would be keys to move ;)
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Re: nCraft (3D minecraft-like game for the nspire)
« Reply #127 on: September 22, 2012, 02:23:24 am »
I don't mind if there are no textures. I think that if you use the checkerboard effect and make sure there are tiles of different colors and that they're similar to Minecraft, it should be OK. A background will definitively help, though.

Offline turiqwalrus

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Re: nCraft (3D minecraft-like game for the nspire)
« Reply #128 on: September 22, 2012, 04:40:08 am »
the problem would likely be differentiating stuff like pumpkins/orange wool or snow/black wool.

Also, are you planning on adding gravity-affected blocks like sand?

Offline ElementCoder

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Re: nCraft (3D minecraft-like game for the nspire)
« Reply #129 on: September 22, 2012, 04:57:04 am »
the problem would likely be differentiating stuff like pumpkins/orange wool or snow/black wool.
snow and black wool? :P

That on a sidenote, I hope you will complete this project. It sounds awesome.

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Offline Chockosta

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Re: nCraft (3D minecraft-like game for the nspire)
« Reply #130 on: September 22, 2012, 05:44:54 am »
You should look into how raycasting is done for drawing maps in a raycaster (only the ray cast, not the drawing), then try to add the third dimension. This will be the easyest way, and it's fully possible because of the block-based world. Raycasting as used in 3D computer games often uses more complex calculations and search for polygons, which would also make it harder to use.
Yes, that's what I have in mind. Cube-based worlds are well adapted to raycasting.

You're right, traditionally they aren't designed for it, but using the sector system to your advantage, you may be able to get away with it. Now a standard orthagonal raycaster is very well suited for dynamic maps, if you can use the other raycasting techniques with it, and avoid the bsd tree entirely, you may be able to use a raycaster to do it all. Take a look at the raycaster that was used in the port of Doom for nSpire (not the source port, the full rebuild) and you'll see what i mean.

The Voxel idea sounds like the best one yet. it would really be well suited for this style of game. I suspected for a while that the original used a mix of voxel rendering and polygons, but i don't know for sure, it looks suspiciously like that.
I know that raycasting could be useul for my game, but I'm not sure that it would be faster than my current "3D engine".
All I do is selecting cubes around the player which are visible, sort them (with an optimized heap sort) and display them (without any depth buffer).
The main part of the speed loss comes from cube drawing, and I think I optimized this part quite well...

Moreover, you have to be able to look up and down, which all the raycasting engines that I know don't support.
So I think that I will keep my 3D engine for now (which isn't far from a voxel engine).

Later maybe you could implement a choice of color? or texture packs :P
Well, I'll think about that later, it is not my priority :)

One thing that's worth keeping in mind is since it works on grayscale models, clickpad support should be kept. Idk how ndless goes about it, but maybe if using the touchpad breaks on the clickpad it can be an option? Personally I'm not too fond of how touchy ndoom is :P but to each their own.
Maybe you're right.
So what should I do ? Use a detection based on touching or clicking ?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2012, 05:46:18 am by Chockosta »

Offline Hayleia

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Re: nCraft (3D minecraft-like game for the nspire)
« Reply #131 on: September 22, 2012, 07:15:48 am »
One thing that's worth keeping in mind is since it works on grayscale models, clickpad support should be kept. Idk how ndless goes about it, but maybe if using the touchpad breaks on the clickpad it can be an option? Personally I'm not too fond of how touchy ndoom is :P but to each their own.
Maybe you're right.
So what should I do ? Use a detection based on touching or clicking ?
Can't you do both so it runs on every calc ? Like "If touched or clicked" (in pseudo code) ?
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Offline lkj

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Re: nCraft (3D minecraft-like game for the nspire)
« Reply #132 on: September 22, 2012, 07:29:47 am »
One thing that's worth keeping in mind is since it works on grayscale models, clickpad support should be kept. Idk how ndless goes about it, but maybe if using the touchpad breaks on the clickpad it can be an option? Personally I'm not too fond of how touchy ndoom is :P but to each their own.
Maybe you're right.
So what should I do ? Use a detection based on touching or clicking ?
You could detect if it's a touchpad or a clickpad, and use touching if possible.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2012, 07:30:54 am by lkj »

Offline Chockosta

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Re: nCraft (3D minecraft-like game for the nspire)
« Reply #133 on: September 22, 2012, 07:43:38 am »
Ok, thanks.
I asked this question, because some people seem to prefer clicking... (like Darl181)

Offline Hayleia

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Re: nCraft (3D minecraft-like game for the nspire)
« Reply #134 on: September 22, 2012, 10:38:39 am »
Ok, thanks.
I asked this question, because some people seem to prefer clicking... (like Darl181)
No, I think Darl's problem with nDoom is that you control the whole player's movement with the touchpad. In your game, the touchpad only controls the camera so it should not become annoying :)
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