Author Topic: pacspire - A simple package manager for the TI-Nspire/Ndless (WIP) (Read 57938 times)

Vogtinator · « **Reply #45 on:** August 09, 2013, 08:07:33 pm »

Quote from: ExtendeD on August 09, 2013, 07:53:14 pm

Quote from: compu on August 09, 2013, 07:10:33 am
Sure. And by the way, would it be possible to make the program loader of ndless available to launched programs?

I have just added nl_exec() to Ndless/Ndless SDK r877. I haven't been able to test it extensively yet, tell me if everything works for you.
Implementing shortcuts should be straightforward, storing the target path in a plain text file with a .lnk extension should do.

A program associated to .lnk isn't needed?

ExtendeD · « **Reply #46 on:** August 09, 2013, 08:09:46 pm »

Yes, of course this is required

Levak · « **Reply #47 on:** August 10, 2013, 02:51:51 am »

Should I add my 2 cents ?

Only from what I can see in the topic (i.e. I never tested anything), something that bother me is the number of files/folders created.
Remember how slow the TI-Nspire is on generating the MyDocument view, and here with only one project it creates dozens of files.

Maybe pacspire should hide those files and offers a way to unhide them, such as Hide Manager (by renaming the files/folders such that they do not appear in the MyDocument view).

On the other hand, as for the user-friendly part, as hoffa said, remember its only a calculator, and imagine yourself explain to this type of guy (no offense here) how to use pacspire : I doubt it would be easy, but who knows if pacspire comes included with Ndless package ?

Also, I know nFrame is not yet ready, but would it help for the userfriendly part ?

Anyway, as for the others, I really like this project and would like to push it beyong its limits !

DJ Omnimaga · « **Reply #48 on:** August 10, 2013, 04:03:57 am »

Will hiding them fix the speed issue? I know that on the TI-84+, when programs are locked and not visible from the EDIT menu, there is a massive lag when moving the cursor from one program to another below 50+ locked programs. Of course, the Nspire is a different calc, but since TI still coded it, who knows? >.< I never ever tried any file management tool for the TI-Nspire.

Anyway I like the idea of a package manager for the Nspire!

Hayleia · « **Reply #49 on:** August 10, 2013, 04:20:42 am »

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on August 10, 2013, 04:03:57 am

Will hiding them fix the speed issue? I know that on the TI-84+, when programs are locked and not visible from the EDIT menu, there is a massive lag when moving the cursor from one program to another below 50+ locked programs. Of course, the Nspire is a different calc, but since TI still coded it, who knows? >.< I never ever tried any file management tool for the TI-Nspire.

Yes it works. Basically because "hiding" a program on a z80 calc was about hiding it from the users, not displaying them, but they still were in the "list of present programs". But on a Nspire, HideManager doesn't only hide the program from the user, it moves the program to a place that is not checked by the OS when displaying the My Documents" menu. So it is not only hidden, but also not parsed, which makes displaying faster.
(As an example, I moved all my GBA games with HideManager and I saved 9 seconds).

Levak · « **Reply #50 on:** August 10, 2013, 04:23:45 am »

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on August 10, 2013, 04:03:57 am

Will hiding them fix the speed issue? [...] who knows? >.<

Experiments have shown that hiding files solves the big delay encoured when accessing the My Document view, so we know.

Vogtinator · « **Reply #51 on:** August 10, 2013, 07:35:13 am »

What if we simply store the programs below /documents? Only the links to them would be visible.

Adriweb · « **Reply #52 on:** August 10, 2013, 07:49:21 am »

I don't see why this wouldn't work

Also : should we create separate topics/shared-documents (google docs?) for the computer part and the calc part ?
It'd help being more organized and list ideas and such together.

Vogtinator · « **Reply #53 on:** August 10, 2013, 09:22:32 am »

Another question: Do we want to support calculators without ndless installed (newer models, or if the owner isn't allowed to)?
Can libticables send files to hidden folders? I'd be great to have the appstore recognize packages installed with pacspire and vice versa.
Or handle jailbroken calculators differently than "genuine" ones?

Lionel Debroux · « **Reply #54 on:** August 10, 2013, 09:39:05 am »

Quote

Do we want to support calculators without ndless installed (newer models, or if the owner isn't allowed to)?

I'm not sure how could we support calculators without Ndless installed, when neither BASIC, nor Lua, can read and write files ?
What's more, in general, on principle grounds, we don't need or want to support the views of the manufacturer and school system. Most programs which could be installed through a package managers are games, because it's easier to make games than integrate with the OS.

Quote

Can libticables send files to hidden folders?

Well, hidden folders are outside of the /documents hierarchy, correct ? libticalcs is not any more able to send files outside of this hierarchy than TINC(L)S is. It might be on OS 1.xx, which contain a directory traversal vulnerability used for dumping the Nspire's OS (there's a better way, not implemented by libticalcs), but not on the OS versions we care about...

DJ Omnimaga · « **Reply #55 on:** August 10, 2013, 09:44:59 am »

Quote from: Levak on August 10, 2013, 04:23:45 am

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on August 10, 2013, 04:03:57 am
Will hiding them fix the speed issue? [...] who knows? >.<
Experiments have shown that hiding files solves the big delay encoured when accessing the My Document view, so we know.

Good

Adriweb · « **Reply #56 on:** August 10, 2013, 10:19:49 am »

Quote from: Lionel Debroux on August 10, 2013, 09:39:05 am

Quote
Do we want to support calculators without ndless installed (newer models, or if the owner isn't allowed to)?
I'm not sure how could we support calculators without Ndless installed, when neither BASIC, nor Lua, can read and write files ?
What's more, in general, on principle grounds, we don't need or want to support the views of the manufacturer and school system. Most programs which could be installed through a package managers are games, because it's easier to make games than integrate with the OS.

Reasoning like this, you're simply restraining the target of the whole project to a few dozens people... which is clearly not the goal here.
And we are talking of generalizing the whole thing so that it can be used for any document, we wouldn't even "need" to know what type it is (of course, it's preferrable to do so in order to let the user know the maximum amount of info/metadata, it's always better). On the computer side, that is. On the calc side, of course, a package manager for just a single file may be overkill, but .. so what ?

Oh, BTW, you're wrong when saying "neither BASIC, nor Lua, can read and write files" : there are (and not just a handful) Lua and Basic projects that come with multiple files that have to be put inside of MyLib, to function, so they are reading/writing to external things, just not very freely.

I think we should indeed handle both cases :
- if the calc is not ndlessed, warn the user that the files won't be transfered outside of /documents, and that, of course, only Basic + Lua based .tns will work, unless they install Ndless (give a link and/or automate the installation if the user accepts to install it).
- if ndlessed, then, files will be transfered within /documents temporarily and then handled by the calc program to be moved somewhere else with a directly-user-accessible link created.

Some parameters could also be the default location of the transferred files, default behaviour for creating links, etc.

Quote

I'd be great to have the appstore recognize packages installed with pacspire and vice versa.

Approchaing some sort of a "syncing" feature, then, at the same time

With a list.txt.tns within /documents that would be retrieved and parsed to see what's installed, the version, etc.

Lionel Debroux · « **Reply #57 on:** August 10, 2013, 10:28:31 am »

Quote

you're simply restraining the target of the whole project to a few dozens people...

There are far more than "a few dozen persons" who can install Ndless...

Quote

- if the calc is not ndlessed, warn the user that the files won't be transfered outside of /documents, and that, of course, only Basic + Lua based .tns will work, unless they install Ndless (give a link and/or automate the installation if the user accepts to install it).
- if ndlessed, then, it will be transfered within /documents temporarily and then handled by the calc program to be moved somewhere else with a directly-user-accessible link created.

OK, so you're thinking about moving more functionality on the computer side than I was thinking. That could be an option.

We're still very heavily in the brainstorming / planning phase, we'll prioritize features and make a design later

Vogtinator · « **Reply #58 on:** August 10, 2013, 10:34:34 am »

Quote

There are far more than "a few dozen persons" who can install Ndless...

But many school require OS > 3.1. The nspire is not a "gaming" platform, it's a calculator.

Quote

OK, so you're thinking about moving more functionality on the computer side than I was thinking. That could be an option.

Is libti* able to send and receive files without *.tns? At least "/documents/packspire/packages.txt" or whatever the database will be called should be hidden.

Adriweb · « **Reply #59 on:** August 10, 2013, 10:39:09 am »

Quote from: Lionel Debroux on August 10, 2013, 10:28:31 am

Quote
you're simply restraining the target of the whole project to a few dozens people...
There are far more than "a few dozen persons" who can install Ndless...

Of course, but not so many if you're combining the conditions : getting aware of the project && getting convinced it is a good idea && resticting (with no other motive than pissing the management off) to ndless files[/b].
I'm just trying to help growing the targeted people ("catchment area" / "zone de chalandise"

)

Quote from: Lionel Debroux on August 10, 2013, 10:28:31 am

Quote
- if the calc is not ndlessed, warn the user that the files won't be transfered outside of /documents, and that, of course, only Basic + Lua based .tns will work, unless they install Ndless (give a link and/or automate the installation if the user accepts to install it).
- if ndlessed, then, it will be transfered within /documents temporarily and then handled by the calc program to be moved somewhere else with a directly-user-accessible link created.
OK, so you're thinking about moving more functionality on the computer side than I was thinking. That could be an option.

Ah, yes, sorry for not being clearer.

Quote from: Lionel Debroux on August 10, 2013, 10:28:31 am

We're still very heavily in the brainstorming / planning phase, we'll prioritize features and make a design later

Sure, yes, options like that could be done later, it's not so important at first.

Also, I edited the previous post adding this, as it can be helpful for people not knowing this, and, well, it's a usecase of such a project :
"Oh, BTW, you're wrong when saying "neither BASIC, nor Lua, can read and write files" : there are (and not just a handful) Lua and (more) Basic projects that come with multiple files (other .tns) that have to be put inside of MyLib, to function, so they are reading/writing to external things (just not very freely, sadly, that I perfectly agree...)"

Author Topic: pacspire - A simple package manager for the TI-Nspire/Ndless (WIP) (Read 57938 times)

Vogtinator

Re: pacspire - A simple package manager for the TI-Nspire/Ndless (WIP)

ExtendeD

Re: pacspire - A simple package manager for the TI-Nspire/Ndless (WIP)

Levak

Re: pacspire - A simple package manager for the TI-Nspire/Ndless (WIP)

DJ Omnimaga

Re: pacspire - A simple package manager for the TI-Nspire/Ndless (WIP)

Hayleia

Re: pacspire - A simple package manager for the TI-Nspire/Ndless (WIP)

Levak

Re: pacspire - A simple package manager for the TI-Nspire/Ndless (WIP)

Vogtinator

Re: pacspire - A simple package manager for the TI-Nspire/Ndless (WIP)

Adriweb

Re: pacspire - A simple package manager for the TI-Nspire/Ndless (WIP)

Vogtinator

Re: pacspire - A simple package manager for the TI-Nspire/Ndless (WIP)

Lionel Debroux

Re: pacspire - A simple package manager for the TI-Nspire/Ndless (WIP)

DJ Omnimaga

Re: pacspire - A simple package manager for the TI-Nspire/Ndless (WIP)

Adriweb

Re: pacspire - A simple package manager for the TI-Nspire/Ndless (WIP)

Lionel Debroux

Re: pacspire - A simple package manager for the TI-Nspire/Ndless (WIP)

Vogtinator

Re: pacspire - A simple package manager for the TI-Nspire/Ndless (WIP)

Adriweb

Re: pacspire - A simple package manager for the TI-Nspire/Ndless (WIP)