Post by: nitacku on October 06, 2007, 04:18:00 am
Alright, I have uploaded the newest version finally :)
I still don't have the readme complete, but Implicit is finished.
Now maybe I'll see about making it into an app.
[old]
K, so try out this version of Implicit.
It should fix all the bugs.
Also, it uses way less ram since everything is kept archived.
As always, you can create your own modules to use with Implicit.
Just follow the directions in the readme.
[/old]
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 06, 2007, 12:18:00 pm
I've tried, thank you a lot for specifying which programs that arent modules to archive this time because in the last readme it didn't x.x so now I have enough RAM to run it :)
, but I noticed a bug when pressing CLEAR in the sprite editor it gives ERR:LABEL x.xIs the map editor module coming along pretty well btw? I noticed it wasn't included in the current release
Post by: nitacku on October 06, 2007, 01:56:00 pm
In my next release everything will be finished, including the map editor.
So if anyone has any suggestions/requests/ideas/demands, please share them so that I may program them into the editor.
If anyone would like a feature that is not being implemented, such as text sprites or animation (I just gave myself an awesome idea %)
), I will program it and include it in Implicit as a module. (That's the beauty of the modules. Adding things is simple)
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 06, 2007, 02:52:00 pm
Also include xLIB in your next release
You could also make an editor for text based maps with dual layer text support (like Metroid Pi and Zoith), and allow people to save their favourite char combinations ^^
Post by: Halifax on October 06, 2007, 04:16:00 pm
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 06, 2007, 04:51:00 pm
Post by: bfr on October 06, 2007, 05:14:00 pm
Now to find my TI-84+ SE....
Post by: Halifax on October 06, 2007, 08:39:00 pm
Post by: dinhotheone on October 11, 2007, 12:29:00 pm
one thing you could add
(probably already are) is an are you sure when exiting instead of an error msg. the error msg is nice and i can see where you were going with it but i think there are more important things (jk btw but not about the are you sure) also another place where this would be handy is pasting stuff. i kept accidentally pasting over my spot one sprite when i pressed paste it immediately jumped to paster and pasted it right there.
also i think that you have everything you really need in your engine, also, the size is managable which is great. i think any other additions should be modular, (text sprites for example) which will keep the size the same.
Post by: nitacku on October 11, 2007, 04:53:00 pm
In order to create grayscale sprites, two layers must be used. One layer will get displayed while the other layer is quickly XOR'd over the stationary layer . What you get is pixels that rapidly get turned on and off, generating a grayscale effect.
ALPHA:
When you open the editor, by default the active layer is the layer that will remain stationary, not XOR'd. To switch to the other layer (the XOR'd layer) simply press ALPHA.
MODE: (Before you read this section, keep in mind that DEL will do the process for you. You'll see what I mean.)
When creating grayscale sprites, it is necessary to design the layers in such a way that the XOR'd layer will not cause the rendered sprite to flicker. In order to do this, there should be an alternating pattern of off/on pixels (a checkered pattern) in the stationary layer in relation to the XOR'd layer. (Now I know this doesn't make any sense, but maybe I'll create a picture tutorial to explain better.) Anyways, pressing MODE simply merges the two layers together into one view so that you can see how the two layers will effect each other. Pressing MODE does not modify the layer in any way, it is only a tool to make creating grayscale easier.
DEL:
So now that you know what you have to do in order to create grayscale, wouldn't it be nice if the editor could do the checkered pattern work for you? This what DEL is for. Simply turn the pixels on in the XOR'd layer that you want to appear gray in the rendered sprite. Press DEL, and the editor will do the rest. What actually happens is the editor will AND a checkered pattern to a third matrix based on the XOR'd layer, which in turn will be OR'd to the stationary layer. Whew! :)
This simply creates a checkered pattern on the stationary layer in relation to wherever pixels were turned on in the XOR'd layer.Now try this for practice:
1. Start Implicit
2. Open the Sprite module
3. Press F2 to switch to "gray" mode
4. Press F3 to switch to "16x16" mode
5. Select "new" from the menu
6. Press ALPHA to switch to the XOR'd layer
7. Press F4 to fill the active layer
8. Press DEL to create the grayscale checkered pattern
9. Press ENTER to return back to the module menu
10. Press F1 to render the grayscale sprite.
What you should end up with is a 'perfect' grayscale sprite, meaning the sprite shouldn't have any noticeable flicker to it (quite an achievement in Basic I might add :)
)So that's the basics of the buttons. If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask.
As for the sprite getting pasted immediately, that's just because I'm using xLIB for keypress recognition, and it doesn't clear the read like getKey would. I'll add a getKey just before the paste code and that should fix the problem. Thanks for notifiying me of this and also thank you for the compliments, it's knowing that people find my programs useful that keeps me going :)
I am a bit confused on the error message you mentioned. Is this in the picture editor? I do have a "Save Changes?" dialog that appears when in the picture editor.
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 11, 2007, 07:01:00 pm
Post by: Liazon on October 12, 2007, 10:13:00 am
Post by: dinhotheone on October 12, 2007, 12:29:00 pm
theres a label error whenever i press clear, thats what i was referring to i think you said you fixed it but i cant remember. thanks for the explanation, i see whats going on now.
Post by: TIfanx1999 on October 14, 2007, 10:24:00 am
| QUOTE |
| Nice, I should really update my old grayscale tutorial. It's almost 3 years old. It used Omnicalc but i was supposed to make one usign xLIB app at one point |
Yes, do find some time to write this. I'm sure a large number of people would find it very useful :)
.Post by: Liazon on October 15, 2007, 02:50:00 pm
| QUOTE (nitacku @ 11 Oct, 2007, 22:53) |
| In order to create grayscale sprites, two layers must be used. One layer will get displayed while the other layer is quickly XOR'd over the stationary layer . What you get is pixels that rapidly get turned on and off, generating a grayscale effect. ... When creating grayscale sprites, it is necessary to design the layers in such a way that the XOR'd layer will not cause the rendered sprite to flicker. In order to do this, there should be an alternating pattern of off/on pixels (a checkered pattern) in the stationary layer in relation to the XOR'd layer. (Now I know this doesn't make any sense, but maybe I'll create a picture tutorial to explain better.) Anyways, pressing MODE simply merges the two layers together into one view so that you can see how the two layers will effect each other. Pressing MODE does not modify the layer in any way, it is only a tool to make creating grayscale easier. |
so basically w/ xlib, you have to pre-interlace the sprites for gs since you don't actually have a quick way to interlaces the whole screen to prevent flickering?
I know in ASM, most gs packages (Ducks' and RGP) will use bit level masking of the screen buffer data to reduce the flicker of simply alternating light and dark layers.
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 17, 2007, 05:27:00 am
Post by: TIfanx1999 on October 17, 2007, 11:24:00 am
Edit: IE like;
layer 1:
010101010
010101010
010101010
010101010
010101010
010101010
010101010
010101010
layer 2:
001010100
001010100
001010100
001010100
001010100
001010100
001010100
001010100
where the grey area is in the center of the sprite.
Post by: Liazon on October 17, 2007, 03:29:00 pm
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 17, 2007, 03:43:00 pm
01010101
10101010
01010101
10101010
01010101
10101010
01010101
10101010
10101010
01010101
10101010
01010101
10101010
01010101
10101010
01010101
because with vertical lines it still show the flicker a lot and on the 83+ with horizontal lines contrast decreases so much that you barely see the grayscale (it does with checkered pattern too but much less worse)
If u want to see what i mean set Ymin to -62 and Ymax to 0 and type in a program
ClrDraw
For(Z,-62,0,2
Horizontal Z
End
then run it and see the screen fade out. I don't know if this happen on new TI-83+s but I know it does on old ones and it is much less worse on SE/84+ models
EDIT: here is it in action
tested on my bro's 83+, then my SE and my 83+. The SE date back in early 2002 and the two regulars mid 2001
Post by: TIfanx1999 on October 18, 2007, 11:47:00 am
| QUOTE |
| more like this: 01010101 10101010 01010101 10101010 01010101 10101010 01010101 10101010 10101010 01010101 10101010 01010101 10101010 01010101 10101010 01010101 |
That is essentially what i posted except the first collum and the last collum have clear pixels (GS area is in the middle)
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 18, 2007, 12:01:00 pm
Post by: TIfanx1999 on October 18, 2007, 12:05:00 pm
| QUOTE |
| Read This |
I tried... some of it made sense, and then my head started to hurt
:paf:
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 18, 2007, 12:21:00 pm
1st is horizontal scanlines, 2nd is vertical, 3rd is diagonal, 4th is no scanlines. Imho it look much less noticeable in the 3rd square
Liazon link applies for z80 Assembly though, not BASIC
Post by: Liazon on October 18, 2007, 01:59:00 pm
Post by: nitacku on October 18, 2007, 02:12:00 pm
I'd be nice if an assembly program could allow basic programs to run a short segment of code at a defined interrupt intervals.
It can be done though, it just requires 3 layers instead of 2.
I think it is possible to create 5 level gs in basic with only 3 layers, so having only 4 level gs would be a waste. :P
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 18, 2007, 02:28:00 pm
Post by: nitacku on October 18, 2007, 02:36:00 pm
I would definitely congratulate anyone who can complete a game with 5 level gs.
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 18, 2007, 03:16:00 pm
:paf::wacko::paf::wacko::paf::wacko::paf::wacko::paf:
Post by: TIfanx1999 on October 19, 2007, 12:40:00 pm
| QUOTE |
| I would definitely congratulate anyone who can complete a game with 5 level gs. |
I can't imagine the space that would take up.....
QuoteBegin
| QUOTE |
| I was gonna try once |
For some reason that doesnt surprise me :P
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 19, 2007, 01:15:00 pm
Post by: TIfanx1999 on October 19, 2007, 03:00:00 pm
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 19, 2007, 04:03:00 pm
If you mess around with the settings you can manage to make it capture from something else than VTI emulator, such as a Gameboy Advance emulator ;)
This pic is old though, it was a fake project posted on Omnimaga as April Fools Joke in 2005, some people on MaxCoderz and TI-Bank websites felt for it.
Post by: Liazon on October 20, 2007, 12:54:00 am
couldn't you take screens of stuff in color too?
Post by: TIfanx1999 on October 20, 2007, 05:37:00 am
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 20, 2007, 07:59:00 am
Post by: nitacku on November 03, 2007, 01:25:00 pm
Here's what I have so far:
preview
map > pic
fill map
change pic
render
change dimensions
I need some more functions.
Btw, the editor is fully complete right now.
Both 8x8 and 16x16 is supported in both b/w and grayscale.
The sprite selector is pretty sweet too :P
So if you've got any good ides, please let me know. :)
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 03, 2007, 03:55:00 pm
Post by: nitacku on November 03, 2007, 04:22:00 pm
I'll definitely get to work on adding that.
Post by: dinhotheone on November 04, 2007, 08:09:00 am
Post by: nitacku on November 04, 2007, 08:58:00 am
I have it finished already too. :)
I'm about ready to package everything together and create the readme, so if there's something that you want, let me know soon
Should I pack everything into an app? (I'll still have a program version)
Just wondering what everyone thinks.
Post by: Liazon on November 04, 2007, 09:06:00 am
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 04, 2007, 09:31:00 am
Post by: nitacku on November 04, 2007, 05:57:00 pm
Check the first post to download. :)
I have yet to finish the readme.
Now to package everything into an app...
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 04, 2007, 07:13:00 pm
Post by: trevmeister66 on November 05, 2007, 10:23:00 am
Post by: dinhotheone on November 05, 2007, 11:47:00 am
Post by: nitacku on November 05, 2007, 02:37:00 pm
The only program that needs to be in RAM is Implicit :)
Just thought I'd let you know
| QUOTE |
| I downloaded it.. and it won't let me send _theta_SUB to wabbit or pti.. don't know what's up with that, but when i try to run it without that program, i get the "retrieve error" error from implicit. |
Hmm, that's strange, not sure why it won't send. I'll check to see if I can get it working on wabbit. The error is occurring because prgmΘSUB isn't on the calc.
Post by: dinhotheone on November 05, 2007, 04:07:00 pm
Post by: trevmeister66 on November 10, 2007, 06:00:00 pm
Post by: nitacku on November 10, 2007, 06:47:00 pm
I'm not really sure what could have went wrong other than the Ram was full or something
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 10, 2007, 07:19:00 pm
Post by: trevmeister66 on November 11, 2007, 04:13:00 am
EDIT: That's wierd. It works when I send it to calculator, but doesn't when i use PTI or Wabbit.. Oh well.
Post by: nitacku on November 11, 2007, 08:11:00 am
It works great except that BasicBuilder loads everything into RAM.
This means that there is only 5000 bytes free when the app is running, which is not enough to load the sprite editor.
Unless someone knows of a way to keep programs archived in a BasicBuilder app, then packing Implicit into an app will impossible :(
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 11, 2007, 12:18:00 pm
you will need to use Codex, it let you archive/unarchive programs from programs, since the BASIC equivalents doesn't work for programs inside program code
Post by: nitacku on November 11, 2007, 12:49:00 pm
BasicBuilder copies the programs to Ram, but I don't think there is a way to access them.
I could do this when the programs are outside of the app, but that would defeat the purpose of having an app.
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 11, 2007, 12:56:00 pm
Post by: nitacku on November 11, 2007, 02:17:00 pm
Flash Gordon won't work at all, and Codex will only works on programs that are not in the app. xLIB does the same thing as Codex.
Now I'll have to see about using Celtic. (not even sure what it can do yet)
Post by: Speler on November 17, 2007, 07:18:00 am
-I can't figure out how to add a sprite I just edited to a picture, also it doesn't seem to support sprites of different sizes (specifically 16x16).
-It'd be nice to have a preview sprite window in the corner while you're editing sprites (where the sprite's pixels are 1x1 not 3x3).
-The maps scrolling is a little slow, but I can live with that.
-It'd be nice to allow you to input the picture number manually, I'm currently using pic7 (so I can edit it manually) and it takes a while to get to it.
-I get a lot of ERR: MEMORY's
Other then this, great job so far!
EDIT: Ah, I figured out how to do 16x16
Post by: nitacku on November 17, 2007, 10:33:00 am
You can press up and down when in the picture selector to jump by a factor of 10.
You can configure the default picture in the Options menu. Just set the pic to 7 that way you don't have to change the pic all the time.
hmm, I think there is an error with the sprite paster. I'll upload a fixed version.
You can keep everything archived, even the modules. The only program that needs to be in RAM is prgmImplicit
I can't come up with a faster way to do scrolling :P
The code is open source, so If you want to try to speed it up I will gladly give you credit. :)I can add a preview window, however, I'm worried that it might slow the editor down too much. I'll experiment around with it and see if I can't come up with a solution.
And always, thank you for the comments, they are greatly appreciated.
If there is anything that you think should be fixed/changed/added just let me know, thanks. ;)
Post by: Speler on November 17, 2007, 11:19:00 am
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 17, 2007, 12:57:00 pm
| QUOTE (nitacku @ 17 Nov, 2007, 16:33) |
| I should release a readme :D |
And password protect the program, like Metroid II Last Chozo and Zelda: Dark Link Quest 1.01
Post by: Liazon on November 17, 2007, 01:40:00 pm
| QUOTE (DJ Omnimaga @ 17 Nov, 2007, 18:57) | ||
QuoteBegin-nitacku+17 Nov, 2007, 16:33-->
And password protect the program, like Metroid II Last Chozo and Zelda: Dark Link Quest 1.01 |
^^ that usually helps
Post by: nitacku on December 26, 2007, 07:00:00 pm
After realizing that packaging this into an app would be impossible, I have managed to pack everything into an AppVar instead. This means that you will only need 2 files on your calc, one of which is kept permanently archived, never to be seen except in the memory menu.
So in the file I have attached are 4 programs. (Celtic2, Implict + AppVar, and xLIB)
Send them all to you calc, and make sure to archive the AppVar.
I don't have a readme created yet because I just want to get this update out here first, but I will be releasing everything officially soon.
I still have a program version for those of you who would like to see the source or want the option to choose what to install.
That's about all for now.
Let me know of any bugs and please share your suggestions.
Here's some things to try:
Press Mode while editing a picture or a map for a cool menu.
Try pressing Alpha in all the editors.
Try pressing and holding alpha.
Enter always goes back.
Clear always quits.
See if you can figure out the different modes in the sprite editor.
Check out the automatic greyscale checkered pattern generator in the sprite/pic editors.
Test out the picture filters. (Press Mode while editing a pic)
Try changing the mode from 8x8 to 16x16 or b/w to greyscale
Store a map as a pic.
Render a scene.
Blur a pic using the provided mod.
Merge two layers together using your choice of logic.
Transform an image.
Try figuring out recursive sprite manipulation to create cool effects using the Duplicate feature.
Use the filters to give an sprite on a pic a shadow effect.
Thanks,
-nitacku
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 26, 2007, 07:47:00 pm
glad you found an alternative to BasicBuilder :)
Post by: Liazon on December 27, 2007, 06:19:00 am
will try this when I have time.
Post by: nitacku on December 28, 2007, 11:11:00 am
The program clears the keypress buffer after selecting a picture so that the first loops in paste/load/duplicate are not bypassed.
Added a few error messages dealing with memory and missing files.
Fixed a little glitch when importing external mods.
(The program didn't overwrite the graphscreen with the current pic prior to executing the mod)
All mods now have the ability to return back to Implicit without activating the affirmation message by returning 0 for 'no' (any other constant number will be assumed as 'yes')
In order to run the main menu of Implicit without getting a memory error, you must have at least 6580 bytes of RAM available. Only 4000 of the bytes are actually used, but almost of them are needed during the unpacking of the subprograms.
Things I might consider:
Using xLIB to check if Celtic2 exists, otherwise an error is returned.
(I'm still considering the benefits over the memory usage of this feature)
I'm also considering making all text uppercase in order to reduce the memory usage.
I might consider release a no eye candy version where all the unessential xLIB shape commands are removed. This will probably reduce the size of the program by 2000 bytes I'm guessing, however, this won't significantly reduce the amount of RAM needed since the 2000 bytes is spread out across the 8 different programs in the AppVar.
Problems that I am aware of:
In order to prevent memory errors, I have the sprite layers loaded at 16x16 even in 8x8 mode. This is so that the memory doesn't run out if the user were to switch to 16x16 mode with insufficient RAM. By doing this, 2315x3 = 6954 bytes of memory are used just on the sprite layers (2 active layers and 1 swap layer for doing operations such as rotate). So if you are ever wondering why the sprite editor uses so much RAM, this is why. I'll see if I can come up with a memory checking routine so that the sprite layers can be loaded based on the settings instead of always loading them at the maximum setting.
So check out this latest compile and let me know what you think.
Your suggestions/comments are very much appreciated, without them, it is difficult to create a utility that will meet the needs of it's users.
Thanks,
nitacku
Post by: dinhotheone on December 28, 2007, 11:30:00 am