Can't you make what I think is called a z-buffer? Basically, every pixel on the screen is assigned a value which represents their "distance" from the screen (row 1 could be distance 1, row 2 distance 3, row 3 distance 5, etc.), which would allow for objects with special outlines and stuff. The objects drawn onto the tiles could be given their own distances (If they are on row 1, give them distance 0, row 2 gives 2, row 3 gives 4, etc). That would mean 1-byte per pixel (not 1 bit). I think however that you could easily allocate 6144 bytes of free space in the ram. Of course, with z-buffering you wouldn't be able to use a library, given how slow they are (not that I know, I've never used them), and it would have to be written in pure asm, but hey, that's the fun part.

Can't you make what I think is called a z-buffer? Basically, every pixel on the screen is assigned a value which represents their "distance" from the screen (row 1 could be distance 1, row 2 distance 3, row 3 distance 5, etc.), which would allow for objects with special outlines and stuff. The objects drawn onto the tiles could be given their own distances (If they are on row 1, give them distance 0, row 2 gives 2, row 3 gives 4, etc). That would mean 1-byte per pixel (not 1 bit). I think however that you could easily allocate 6144 bytes of free space in the ram. Of course, with z-buffering you wouldn't be able to use a library, given how slow they are (not that I know, I've never used them), and it would have to be written in pure asm, but hey, that's the fun part.

If I'm to reply to that, I have to assume that this project is being written in ASM, which I am willing to give it a go.

It would be a bit easier to get calc84maniac to spill the beans as to how he did his Mode 7 engine. That would allow you some pretty cool effects like smooth rotations you see in FFT and the like. Of course, you can't do variable-height squares with that, but then again, that's part of the fun. To figure out how.

Now, let's get back to the BASIC side of things, which this project is actually being coded in.

I'm responding to Builderboy: Having known a logic pattern for building an isometric map, what sort of enhancements do you think Celtic III might need in order to ease the pain of performing these grueling operations? I think I've asked this before, but not in this fashion, but I really like to know. Something that would seem relatively simple in ASM might make a world of difference for what you're doing. Just gotta let me know what that something is. I am willing to help, but ...

Maybe I should just read up on the whole "how it's done" section on the previous page before rambling on any further. bbl </chatroom>

EDIT: Maybe something to help with the juggling of the buffers?

Hmmm, I can't think of anything right now...  And i don't want to ask for something thats super specific to this task. I know I have an efficient rendering engine, and fast vertical scrolling.  I have an idea of a project that could be realized with the current technology, maybe i will put together a small test demo...

Isometric is hard though, so I think it will be slow to do all those calculations and masking in anything other than asm

EDIT: Gosh, that would be crazy not to mention difficult to design so that you could read from data structures and objects and stuff, and all through generic real( commands.  Seems for this kind of project a lot would need to be hand coded

That would work, but then whenever you needed to move an object, you would need t redraw the screen, which takes 40+ Tilemasking operations and screenshifts.  And display all of the objects over again.  For something like displaying a cursor in ISometric space, i think my previous method would be a lot faster. 

Also, for my previous object method, it can be drastically shortened if you don't have an object with black, clear, AND white.
It is assumed you have saved a picture of just the terrain

Clear Screen
Draw Object
Mask object with 3 overlaying landscape masks
Recall Terrain with OR

This could easily be fast enough to display an object with reasonable speed, as none of the objects are particularly taxing

Well this project is being done in basic, so if you have a suggestion that requires me to switch to assembly, they won't be applicable.  The whole point of this project is pushing the limits of Basic and Basic Libraries.

Yes thats true.  I myself never learned assembly, and I really have no intention to. Its just not my language.

On a slightly different note, I was fooling around and created some tiles with different heights for your visual enjoyment


I'm working on getting objects to display nicely, and use this to throw together a quick editor so I can make more nice maps

Yeah, thats probably going to be what I end up doing.  I could sort the objects from highest to lowest, so the test would be as simple as "If Object# > 8" or whatever.