Post by: DrewMarin on December 20, 2006, 04:08:00 am
Cheers, Drew
Post by: graywolf on December 20, 2006, 09:59:00 am
Is it going to be for the 83 or 89. Eitherway, it should also have a battery check.
A file search would be nice (on 89 for sure, but on 83?). Also programmers might want a hex editor or something like that.
A file info page and calc info page is also good. The ability to garbage collect is also good.
And hopefully it will run programs, files in general directly if possible. For example, text files can be viewed by just pressing enter; a program (kernel or shell or basic or w/e) can be run directly.
This probably sounds like a lot, but I'm just giving suggestions. :D
Post by: Radical Pi on December 20, 2006, 10:15:00 am
Post by: bfr on December 20, 2006, 11:02:00 am
| QUOTE (Radical Pi @ 20 Dec, 2006, 16:15) |
| How about... an interpreted language specifically designed for gaming? |
You wouldn't happen to be refering to the MLC shell, would you? ;)
This looks interesting; I look forward to trying it out.
Post by: Radical Pi on December 20, 2006, 12:04:00 pm
Post by: Halifax on December 20, 2006, 12:10:00 pm
Post by: bfr on December 20, 2006, 12:13:00 pm
| QUOTE (Radical Pi @ 20 Dec, 2006, 18:04) |
| Actually I was more thinking of FastRPL. I didn't no MLC was also a shell. :) |
MLC is technically a shell that only runs MLC programs. :)
Haifax has a good point. One should just not let his/her calculator get in the wrong hands.
Post by: graywolf on December 20, 2006, 12:25:00 pm
Post by: dinhotheone on December 20, 2006, 12:27:00 pm
Post by: graywolf on December 20, 2006, 12:44:00 pm
Post by: DrewMarin on December 20, 2006, 02:59:00 pm
Post by: elfprince13 on December 20, 2006, 03:53:00 pm
the phrase "kernel" is probably the wrong one in this case since you are referring to an 83+ shell.
in general BASIC shells are fun to write, but not particularly useful in the long run (dont take this as a discouragement of the project, just a helpful suggestion)
writing a shell in asm is much more useful but the fact the you are asking whether or not you should do it in asm would seem to imply you aren't familiar enough with asm to want to undertake a project of this magnitude in it yet.
anywho, other than that, sounds like a fun project, if you do it in basic I suggest the use of codex and program tools as 2 excellent tools for creating basic shells. If you do it in asm I suggest learning the language and writing a few games before trying anything like this.
Post by: DrewMarin on December 20, 2006, 04:30:00 pm
| QUOTE (elfprince13 @ 20 Dec, 2006, 21:53) |
| no offense meant but several things Id like to point out here. the phrase "kernel" is probably the wrong one in this case since you are referring to an 83+ shell. in general BASIC shells are fun to write, but not particularly useful in the long run (dont take this as a discouragement of the project, just a helpful suggestion) writing a shell in asm is much more useful but the fact the you are asking whether or not you should do it in asm would seem to imply you aren't familiar enough with asm to want to undertake a project of this magnitude in it yet. anywho, other than that, sounds like a fun project, if you do it in basic I suggest the use of codex and program tools as 2 excellent tools for creating basic shells. If you do it in asm I suggest learning the language and writing a few games before trying anything like this. |
well I know what a kernel is(was thinking of writing a kernel in asm also and have this run of it but idk sounds wayy to advanced lol), and I know Im gonna have to use asm at one point becuase basic isnt enough for this project. Community hopefully will help , and the source will be open so people could help me by making changes along the way. And as far as using other programs also it prob will happen. thx for the advice/info elfprince
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 21, 2006, 02:34:00 am
Sound nice for a first project tho, I would allow the user to set his key combination to unlock the calc... uhm wait that would be a nice alternative for a password program (on xbox passwords are key based, not character based :D
)
Post by: DrewMarin on December 21, 2006, 03:37:00 am
| QUOTE (xlibman @ 21 Dec, 2006, 8:34) |
| werent kernel the same thing than shells? On 68k i remember everything that was a shell was called a kernel, I dunno why. Sound nice for a first project tho, I would allow the user to set his key combination to unlock the calc... uhm wait that would be a nice alternative for a password program (on xbox passwords are key based, not character based :D ) |
They just wished it was a kernel, i think Ill take ur advice from msn on the 10 key thing
Post by: elfprince13 on December 21, 2006, 05:38:00 am
| QUOTE (xlibman @ 21 Dec, 2006, 8:34) |
| werent kernel the same thing than shells? On 68k i remember everything that was a shell was called a kernel, I dunno why. Sound nice for a first project tho, I would allow the user to set his key combination to unlock the calc... uhm wait that would be a nice alternative for a password program (on xbox passwords are key based, not character based :D ) |
because what takes the place of the z80 shells on the 68k calcs is much more kernel like. Furthermore TSE especially, but also MOS to a certain degree have Kernel-like functionality, but for the most part they are just shells on top of the real kernel (the TI-OS)
shell != kernel.
QuoteBegin-"Wikipedia"+
| QUOTE ("Wikipedia") |
| In computing, the kernel is the central component of most computer operating systems (OSs). Its responsibilities include managing the system's resources and the communication between hardware and software components. As a basic component of an operating system, a kernel provides the lowest level of abstraction layer for the resources (especially memory, processors and I/O devices) that applications must control to perform their function. It typically makes these facilities available to application processes through inter-process communication mechanisms and system calls. These tasks are done differently by different kernels, depending on their design and implementation. While monolithic kernels will try to achieve these goals by executing all the code in the same address space to increase the performance of the system, microkernels run most of their services in user space, aiming to improve maintainability and modularity of the codebase.[1] A range of possibilities exists between these two extremes. |
QuoteBegin-"wikipedia"+
| QUOTE ("wikipedia") |
| In computing, a shell is a piece of software that provides an interface for users (command line interpreter). Typically, the term refers to an operating system shell which provides access to the services of a kernel. However, the term is also applied very loosely to applications and may include any software that is "built around" a particular component, such as web browsers and email clients that are "shells" for HTML rendering engines. The name 'shell' originates from shells being an outer layer of interface between the user and the innards of the operating system (the kernel). Operating system shells generally fall into one of two categories: command line and graphical. Command line shells provide a command line interface (CLI) to the operating system, while graphical shells provide a graphical user interface (GUI). The relative merits of CLI- and GUI-based shells are often debated. CLI proponents claim that certain operations can be performed much faster under CLI shells than under GUI shells (such as moving files, for example). However, GUI proponents advocate the comparative usability and simplicity of GUI shells. The best choice is often determined by the way in which a computer will be used. On a server mainly used for data transfers and processing with expert administration, a CLI is likely to be the best choice. On the other hand, a GUI would be more appropriate for a computer to be used for image or video editing and the development of the above data. Modern versions of the Microsoft Windows operating system use Windows Explorer as their shell. Explorer provides the familiar desktop environment, Start menu, and task bar, as well as the file management functions of the operating system. Older versions also include Program Manager which was the Shell for the 3.x series of Microsoft Windows. Many individuals and developers dissatisfied with the interface of Windows Explorer have developed software that either alters the functioning and appearance of the shell or replaces it entirely. WindowBlinds by StarDock is a good example of the former sort of application. LiteStep, GeoShell and BB4Win are good examples of the latter. |
Post by: graywolf on December 21, 2006, 06:43:00 am
| QUOTE |
| werent kernel the same thing than shells? On 68k i remember everything that was a shell was called a kernel, I dunno why. |
On 68k they are used synonymously by users who do not really know the difference. By kernel they now mostly refer to PreOS or Kerno. Some shells (basically file explorers) support kernel programs, like TICT (I believe) and probably PCTools. I hope this will be the case with DrewMarin's program (the ability to support kernel programs internally within the shell or with the use of a pre-existing kernel on the calculator).
And the 10 key thing: do you need to press 10 keys to unlock your calculator? Sounds like a lot (and easy to forget).
Post by: DrewMarin on December 21, 2006, 07:25:00 am
Post by: graywolf on December 21, 2006, 07:35:00 am
Post by: DrewMarin on December 21, 2006, 07:57:00 am
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 21, 2006, 01:58:00 pm
Post by: DrewMarin on December 21, 2006, 03:32:00 pm
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 21, 2006, 04:03:00 pm
Post by: DrewMarin on December 21, 2006, 04:06:00 pm
Post by: Radical Pi on December 21, 2006, 11:45:00 pm
Post by: DrewMarin on December 22, 2006, 03:09:00 am
Post by: graywolf on December 22, 2006, 06:35:00 am
Post by: DrewMarin on December 22, 2006, 11:50:00 am
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 22, 2006, 03:54:00 pm
Post by: DrewMarin on December 22, 2006, 05:03:00 pm
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 23, 2006, 02:43:00 am
Post by: elfprince13 on December 23, 2006, 06:14:00 am
are you kidding me? you can get mac minis here for $600 preloaded with iLife, front row, and an apple remote (essentially the apple equivalent to a media center pc, but a lot stabler, and with better editing tools and better iPod support). plus it has FAR better specs than any $600 pc...http://store.apple.com/1-80-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?family=Macmini
Post by: DrewMarin on December 23, 2006, 07:39:00 am
Post by: Demon on December 25, 2006, 05:51:00 pm
Post by: DrewMarin on December 26, 2006, 02:17:00 pm
| QUOTE (Demon @ 25 Dec, 2006, 23:51) |
| The password thing: Maybe it should be an option of how much protection you want. You could set it so you could have protection that no one - not even you - can break or protection you can get around easily... |
Well that would be hard becuase as every hacker knows security is a big joke :D
Im not that much of a hacker yet but I know that security really is a joke there is a other way for everything Post by: necro on December 26, 2006, 07:13:00 pm
Post by: CureDesu on December 27, 2006, 05:39:00 pm
Post by: christop on December 28, 2006, 08:59:00 am
| QUOTE (CureDesu @ 27 Dec, 2006, 23:39) |
| That would be pretty damn awesome if it was possible to run C on Z80 calcs.
Post by: DrewMarin on December 28, 2006, 04:36:00 pm Post by: Jon on January 18, 2007, 05:11:00 pm  I would suggest including a decent-sized set of library functions. I would definitely include the ion libraries, because no one (including me) will program for any shell anymore if they can't fastcopy. I would suggest including more game-oriented libraries, such as tilemapping and masked sprites. If you made libraries such as those to include in your shell, your shell would be a hit. BTW, I would be interested in helping you on this project. One last question: are you planning it to be an app or a program?
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