Author Topic: Xeverion (Read 20957 times)

ASHBAD_ALVIN · « **Reply #75 on:** November 27, 2010, 01:35:08 pm »

hopefully not, I would like that too, as I am sure the casio basic on the prizm will suck and so I will have to bring my 84+ with me still to program in axe on calc. And then when I get home, go on the c sdk on my comp.

DJ Omnimaga · « **Reply #76 on:** November 27, 2010, 01:50:59 pm »

Why is multiple sub-programs such a major issue Aichi? It's not like it will make the game any worse. People will still play it anyway. I don't get why people hate them so much, especially that you still end up with multiple files even when using APPS because of the appvars. I feel this is extremly narrow-minded

Why restrict yourself so much just because it would be in multiple sub-programs? Sorry but this frustrates me so much. I don't get why you would kill the project by absolutely wanting multiple page apps. Plus I wish you good luck dealing with multiple pages anyway because ASM programmers told me it was a major hassle to switch between them.

Multiple pages APPS for Axe are NEVER going to happen. If it does, it will be in 2013 or 2014. Quigibo is too busy with university to deal with this now. So you are gonna abandon Xeverion just because you are too narrow-minded to just use multiple sub-programs instead?

squidgetx · « **Reply #77 on:** November 27, 2010, 02:24:18 pm »

Aichi: You can avoid multiple subprograms by keeping the programs as appvars, then copying them from archive to a temporary program created in RAM then executing it from the app using the b_call ExecuteProgram with the hex code Asm(E7EF7C4E)

More info here

DJ Omnimaga · « **Reply #78 on:** November 27, 2010, 02:35:25 pm »

Yeah I think he did not want multiple appvars either, though. But then, even with an app, he still ends up with them.

If Axe ever was gonna have multiple app page support, then Aichi would be in for even more trouble, because apparently switching between pages is a major PITA. You would need to ask Iambian to confirm, though.

On a side note is it possible to create appvars directly in the archive and have them be larger than 24 KB?

Aichi · « **Reply #79 on:** November 27, 2010, 02:43:10 pm »

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on November 27, 2010, 01:50:59 pm

Why is multiple sub-programs such a major issue Aichi? It's not like it will make the game any worse. People will still play it anyway. I don't get why people hate them so much, especially that you still end up with multiple files even when using APPS because of the appvars. I feel this is extremly narrow-minded

Why restrict yourself so much just because it would be in multiple sub-programs? Sorry but this frustrates me so much. I don't get why you would kill the project by absolutely wanting multiple page apps. Plus I wish you good luck dealing with multiple pages anyway because ASM programmers told me it was a major hassle to switch between them.

Multiple pages APPS for Axe are NEVER going to happen. If it does, it will be in 2013 or 2014. Quigibo is too busy with university to deal with this now. So you are gonna abandon Xeverion just because you are too narrow-minded to just use multiple sub-programs instead?

Wow, sorry. I didn't know how wrong I am when I thought multipaged apps had no disadvantages and it was no problem for Quigibo to implement such an oncalc compiler.
I don't hate subprograms and I'm wondering where I said games using subprograms are bad.
I just thought that using an applications would be better for my project, espacially because I designed my code as a network of sublabels. Using different programs needed many equal sublabels (for example needs every sublabel the axe parser drawing routine and about 40 character structure sublabels), what provides kinda ineffiecient results.
Ok, I will forget my stupid idea and perhaps split the game into programs.
Also, I'll be more cautious with posting things and listen to people who has more experience than me.

calcdude84se · « **Reply #80 on:** November 27, 2010, 02:44:27 pm »

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on November 27, 2010, 02:35:25 pm

Yeah I think he did not want multiple appvars either, though. But then, even with an app, he still ends up with them.

If Axe ever was gonna have multiple app page support, then Aichi would be in for even more trouble, because apparently switching between pages is a major PITA. You would need to ask Iambian to confirm, though.

On a side note is it possible to create appvars directly in the archive and have them be larger than 24 KB?

DJ, it might be possible, but you wouldn't be able to unarchive them

On a more serious note, they would still be usable. I think it is in fact possible; I remember statements that there are bcalls that allow the creation of appvars directly in the archive.

squidgetx · « **Reply #81 on:** November 27, 2010, 03:11:29 pm »

Quote from: calcdude84se on November 27, 2010, 02:44:27 pm

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on November 27, 2010, 02:35:25 pm
Yeah I think he did not want multiple appvars either, though. But then, even with an app, he still ends up with them.

If Axe ever was gonna have multiple app page support, then Aichi would be in for even more trouble, because apparently switching between pages is a major PITA. You would need to ask Iambian to confirm, though.

On a side note is it possible to create appvars directly in the archive and have them be larger than 24 KB?
DJ, it might be possible, but you wouldn't be able to unarchive them
On a more serious note, they would still be usable. I think it is in fact possible; I remember statements that there are bcalls that allow the creation of appvars directly in the archive.

If anyone has more info on this I would be extremely interested

calcdude84se · « **Reply #82 on:** November 27, 2010, 03:16:01 pm »

Just something I remembered hearing about. I'll ask BrandonW on IRC if he knows more

DJ Omnimaga · « **Reply #83 on:** November 28, 2010, 04:10:12 am »

Quote from: calcdude84se on November 27, 2010, 02:44:27 pm

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on November 27, 2010, 02:35:25 pm
Yeah I think he did not want multiple appvars either, though. But then, even with an app, he still ends up with them.

If Axe ever was gonna have multiple app page support, then Aichi would be in for even more trouble, because apparently switching between pages is a major PITA. You would need to ask Iambian to confirm, though.

On a side note is it possible to create appvars directly in the archive and have them be larger than 24 KB?
DJ, it might be possible, but you wouldn't be able to unarchive them
On a more serious note, they would still be usable. I think it is in fact possible; I remember statements that there are bcalls that allow the creation of appvars directly in the archive.

Well I wondered since it's possible in Axe to read stuff from archive. I am unsure how far it can read in an appvar, though...

Quote from: Aichi on November 27, 2010, 02:43:10 pm

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on November 27, 2010, 01:50:59 pm
Why is multiple sub-programs such a major issue Aichi? It's not like it will make the game any worse. People will still play it anyway. I don't get why people hate them so much, especially that you still end up with multiple files even when using APPS because of the appvars. I feel this is extremly narrow-minded

Why restrict yourself so much just because it would be in multiple sub-programs? Sorry but this frustrates me so much. I don't get why you would kill the project by absolutely wanting multiple page apps. Plus I wish you good luck dealing with multiple pages anyway because ASM programmers told me it was a major hassle to switch between them.

Multiple pages APPS for Axe are NEVER going to happen. If it does, it will be in 2013 or 2014. Quigibo is too busy with university to deal with this now. So you are gonna abandon Xeverion just because you are too narrow-minded to just use multiple sub-programs instead?

Wow, sorry. I didn't know how wrong I am when I thought multipaged apps had no disadvantages and it was no problem for Quigibo to implement such an oncalc compiler.
I don't hate subprograms and I'm wondering where I said games using subprograms are bad.
I just thought that using an applications would be better for my project, espacially because I designed my code as a network of sublabels. Using different programs needed many equal sublabels (for example needs every sublabel the axe parser drawing routine and about 40 character structure sublabels), what provides kinda ineffiecient results.
Ok, I will forget my stupid idea and perhaps split the game into programs.
Also, I'll be more cautious with posting things and listen to people who has more experience than me.

Ah ok because it seemed like you were insisting so much on not using sub-programs because it was apparently an extremly bad thing. It seemed like you were ready to kill this project if you were gonna be forced to use them. That said I guess with multiple sub-programs it's indeed harder to use sub-routines in all of them. I think it's no hope to wait for multipage support, though, because just seeing Axe progress rate lately mulltiple app support is just not gonna happen anytime soon. It's not Quigibo fault, but rather life fault that makes university so demanding.

Anyway good luck!

Quigibo · « **Reply #84 on:** November 28, 2010, 04:44:29 am »

Its not that I'm too busy (although that might be part of it). Its mainly because the app compiling is VERY dangerous. The only reason I understand how the code works now is mainly from BrandonW's help. There are a lot of very tricky bcalls and formalities that TI uses when jumping around the flash pages. Its already hard enough to allocate a single page for apps, but allocating 2 pages is really tricky because it sometimes involves swapping sectors if I remember correctly. The point is, I could do it, but I would need a lot of help to make sure there are no rom corrupting bugs (which are really nasty). Even if I did get it to work, it would still be data-only for the second page unless I create some kind of new syntax for off-page calls.

I do plan to make more of the code open source after the next few releases including the application compiling, error scrolling, and other potentially useful sections. Tomorrow I will have a new update, I rewrote all of the archive reading code which took me about 4 days. I'm not sure if there will be any new commands, but I fixed a lot of bugs, safety, optimizations, and looser syntax.

calcdude84se · « **Reply #85 on:** November 28, 2010, 09:44:19 am »

Multi-page apps can cross sectors

Quigibo, couldn't sub( be expanded to include off-page bcalls? I don't see the need for any new syntax (maybe I'm missing something...) There would need to be syntax to mark off pages, though.

Nice to here about a new update

How will the syntax be looser?
Edit: Discussion about Axe should probably be in the Axe subforum, shouldn't it...

DJ Omnimaga · « **Reply #86 on:** November 28, 2010, 11:29:55 pm »

I'm glad the new update arrived

As for multiple page app compiling, I think people should stick with the idea that it will not come out in a long while from now on, because I think it's not a good idea to halt a project until that feature arrives. By the time it will have been figured out, the project author may have lost interest so I think it's best that people use the current ressources they got while multiple app pages compiling is figured out. Anything involving writing to flash is dangerous so Quigibo needs to make sure it works properly before releasing and ask for help and stuff.
Anyway good luck Quigibo and Aichi!

Runer112 · « **Reply #87 on:** November 28, 2010, 11:45:20 pm »

The problem with compiling multi-page apps is not that writing the extra app pages to flash would be dangerous. The problem is adapting the compiled code to include page swapping. It's hard enough to get it to work for a program that you coded yourself in assembly, knowing where the routines and data are. It's even harder to get it to work for arbitrarily coded programs.

DJ Omnimaga · « **Reply #88 on:** November 28, 2010, 11:48:36 pm »

Ah, right. I remember Iambian and someone else saying something about page swapping being quite a PITA to handle in their projects. That's personally one thing that would make me relunctant from attempting to work on such game. Also if the data is on a different page than the code, wouldn't you need to constantly switch when you need the data then the code? I don't know about that stuff but I think I heard something about that before.

Munchor · « **Reply #89 on:** November 29, 2010, 09:14:26 am »

I'm happy with the result of the poll, since that's what most happens in RPG's

Author Topic: Xeverion (Read 20957 times)

ASHBAD_ALVIN

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DJ Omnimaga

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squidgetx

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DJ Omnimaga

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Aichi

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calcdude84se

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squidgetx

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calcdude84se

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DJ Omnimaga

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Quigibo

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calcdude84se

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DJ Omnimaga

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Runer112

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DJ Omnimaga

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Munchor

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