Author Topic: UberGraphX - Ubercalculator  (Read 78644 times)

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Offline jsj795

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Re: Project Paradise - Ubercalculator
« Reply #105 on: March 05, 2011, 04:05:52 am »
Are the prices according to the batch assembly or one by one assembly?


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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Project Paradise - Ubercalculator
« Reply #106 on: March 05, 2011, 04:08:38 am »
I think it's batch assembly, but I'm not sure. He said the one he would build himself would be much more expensive to produce, since he doesn't have all tools available in factories.

Offline jnesselr

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Re: Project Paradise - Ubercalculator
« Reply #107 on: March 05, 2011, 10:42:02 am »
That is awesome!  Although I'm still not sure about the name uberspire as it is kinda Nspire-ish, and people might think "oh, it's a TI calc".  also, the dev version comes with a keypad, right?

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Re: Project Paradise - Ubercalculator
« Reply #108 on: March 05, 2011, 10:50:17 am »
Oh my f*cking god, you must be like, the messiah of the calc community. :P

I have a few questions/suggestions.

1. Are you going to have a repository like github for easy sharing of apps and programs?

and 2. Is there going to be an on calc IDE and compiler?

I am definitely getting this!

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Offline XVicarious

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Re: Project Paradise - Ubercalculator
« Reply #109 on: March 05, 2011, 03:18:59 pm »
Well I'd be more than happy to help start up a repo for the project paradise. Well the IDE can be any ide, and compiler just use like GCC or G++ and compile for ARM.

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Re: Project Paradise - Ubercalculator
« Reply #110 on: March 05, 2011, 04:18:31 pm »
I wonder if you can use something like netbeans as an IDE, if it is only bundled with the languages C/C++ and Java it's around 50 MB.  and it's cross platform and will work on linux.

Offline willrandship

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Re: Project Paradise - Ubercalculator
« Reply #111 on: March 05, 2011, 08:20:49 pm »
One issue that will make it extremely unpopular for schools: Unless you convince them to give you a special exception, touchscreens are not allowed on the ACT or the SAT, and that's where the market is. engineers that use calcs either have used them for years and are used to that one, or have to move around a lot. The other majority is those who use computer software like mathcad. Don't count on engineers as a market. :P

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I'd love one, it's just a market killer.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 08:23:47 pm by willrandship »

Offline ruler501

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Re: Project Paradise - Ubercalculator
« Reply #112 on: March 05, 2011, 09:29:50 pm »
The developer version was the only one supposed that came with the touchscreen. The other one was supposed to be acceptable for standardized test I thought.
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Offline XVicarious

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Re: Project Paradise - Ubercalculator
« Reply #113 on: March 06, 2011, 12:28:08 am »
Yeah, only the Dev version has the touchscreen. The Normal just buttons.

Offline uberspire

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Re: Project Paradise - Ubercalculator
« Reply #114 on: March 06, 2011, 12:59:42 am »
Holy... Is that thing running Crysis?  O.O

I wasn't actually planning on buying one, but since it could probably replace my computer...
Heh, sorry no. :) It's just a video of the intro to Crysis. It was just to demonstrate that this calculator has hardware accelerated video decoding.

The only suggestion would be to maybe redesign the GUI to offer more screen space for browsing and other stuff, else it kinda looks weird if the GUY takes over half of the screen. Other than that, great job so far.
Good point, I believe that can be done. Some of the apps need to be reworked (like Firefox and GIAC) to accommodate the screen.

I say go $155 on the standard. That way you a least make a little bit. :)
The diagram is showing how much it'll probably take to manufacture the first batch. After the first couple of batches get made and shipped off, the manufacturing costs should go done since there will be left over parts from the first batches. Also, the manufacturing costs for the TI-nSpire in that diagram are based on estimates and typical prices around in the industry assuming that TI built TI-nSpire's in batches of 1,000 units. That's probably unlikely and instead they probably build them in batches of 10,000 or even in the millions, meaning that it's very likely that they make much more profit than what my diagram shows and are ripping the students off. It is typical for products made by big companies to be sold at 3-5 times more than what it costs to make it.

Project Paradise can also be considerably way cheaper, but I'm aiming to build them in batches of maybe 100 (or by miracle and we're really lucky maybe 200). If I were to build a clone of TI-nSpire's and sell them myself, I'm certain they could be sold for $100 max and I'd still be making more profit than from Project Paradise. Someone else could try doing that if they wish since that's not the purpose of this project. Main goals for Project Paradise:
* Build a calculator that's technologically superior to anything TI, Casio and HP could make for the next 5-10 years
* Pack in 5-10 times more powerful hardware
* Be within the price ranges of other calculators on the market
* Be the ultimate electronic device for scientific and mathematical education - I believe Project Paradise can effectively engage students way better in education. Ironically, TI sees calculator only as a tool for computation and that's why they want to lock it down. However, computation is only a part of the solving process in mathematics. What's more important is the ability to set up, describe and model the problem. Computers will always be faster and more accurate at computation than humans, but they're not smart enough to set up the problem to get the solution. This is what separates Project Paradise from the other calculators on the market. With it's programming and hardware capabilities, students can write programs to model those problems and get quick solutions. This effectively makes Project Paradise more better for education than anything TI can put out, even though ironically they may claim otherwise. A good TedTalk video elaborates more on how programming and computers can teach mathematics better by Wolfram: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60OVlfAUPJg
* Be more free and open to community development - If you bought a car, shouldn't you be able to do whatever you want with it? Why should a calculator be any different?

Are the prices according to the batch assembly or one by one assembly?
Batch assembly in batches of 100 units.

That is awesome!  Although I'm still not sure about the name uberspire as it is kinda Nspire-ish, and people might think "oh, it's a TI calc".  also, the dev version comes with a keypad, right?
The name can be changed by the time the first units start shipping out. And yes, the Developers Edition comes with a keypad.

1. Are you going to have a repository like github for easy sharing of apps and programs?

and 2. Is there going to be an on calc IDE and compiler?
Yes, their will be a repository where you can download software packages. With the Developer's Edition, you should be able to download them through WiFi. With Standard Edition, you'll have to download them on your computer, save them to SD card and then manually installing each package one by one.

And an on calc IDE, you guys could put whatever you want. GCC and javac seem to run fine if you want to program in C or java, a bit slow, but it's totally possible. Lua and Python interpreters are there if you want that too. For Basic, I was thinking that as a community we could write a program that will interpret every other variant of Basic that exists for every calculator on the market. That way Project Paradise can run any Basic program written for a calculator. It'll be easy then for students to transition and get into Paradise.

Well I'd be more than happy to help start up a repo for the project paradise. Well the IDE can be any ide, and compiler just use like GCC or G++ and compile for ARM.
Do you mean a developer's repo or the package repository? If you could host the repo, that'll be cool.

I wonder if you can use something like netbeans as an IDE, if it is only bundled with the languages C/C++ and Java it's around 50 MB.  and it's cross platform and will work on linux.
On the calculator or for developing apps on the PC? I don't know if NetBeans would work on Paradise. There's a slight possibility it might run on Paradise (it's written in Java right?), but it'll be very slow, require a lot of memory and the interface of NetBeans would take up a lot of space on the screen.

The developer version was the only one supposed that came with the touchscreen. The other one was supposed to be acceptable for standardized test I thought.
Yes, Standard Edition won't have touchscreen and it'll be compatible with the ACT and SAT testing. I've gone over their calculator requirements and this is likely what's going to happen with Project Paradise: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ak__vzlDSwNadHBQN25xSThlbklTMXhRcUphaEdyRkE&hl=en&authkey=CM2a3fEK

As you can see there is no more Professional Edition as it has been consolidated into the Developers Edition. Initially I thought the WiFi module and battery packs would be very expensive, but I think I have found good deals on pricing for those parts. The Standard Edition will come in two versions: one with CAS and another without. CAS is not allowed on the ACT. Standard Edition will have a modified bootloader that will only accept OS'es signed by me to enforce that and on the casing there will be distinctive markings behind the screen indicating what model. Both Standard and Developers will be in a clamshell case that will fit into your pocket like in the mock up (clamshells seem to be allowed on both ACT and SAT testing). I think it's best for it to be a clamshell, since the LCD alone is as wide as the widest length of the TI-nSpire. It would look kind of fat and chubby having it in the traditional calculator form since it would be 5 inches wide then (imagine 5-5.5 inch wide TI-nSpire).

Both ACT and the College Board explicitly state they don't want a QWERTY keyboard. So technically, I can bypass that by having the Standard version use a DVORAK keyboard.

Also, I mentioned before that I was trying to use the Blanview LCDs used in the Casio Prizm, the advantage of them being that they consume only 1/6 to 1/3 the power of the LCD I'm using right now, drastically improving the battery life (that's why the Prizm has a long battery life). I'd tried getting the 480x272 Blanview, but they seem to be generally $100 per screen, which would then make the calculator too expensive then.

Offline ruler501

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Re: Project Paradise - Ubercalculator
« Reply #115 on: March 06, 2011, 01:09:04 am »
Its great to know your still working on this

When do you expect to be able to send out prototyppes to us eager people who "need" one of these
How much will that cost

Are you going to want help with software
If so I'd be glad to help

when are you going to make the final decisions on what parts you will be using?
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-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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GCM/CS/M/S d- s++: a---- C++ UL++ P+ L++ E---- W++ N o? K- w-- o? !M V?
PS+ PE+ Y+ PGP++ t 5? X R tv-- b+++ DI+ D+ G++ e- h! !r y

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Project Paradise - Ubercalculator
« Reply #116 on: March 06, 2011, 02:01:11 am »
@Uberspire, actually the GUI size was pretty fine in the first page screenshots. Could you use that one instead?

Offline uberspire

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Re: Project Paradise - Ubercalculator
« Reply #117 on: March 06, 2011, 04:08:05 am »
@ruler501: Depends on how fully developed you want the prototype to be. As of now, I've just got a working board. Case and keypad need to be worked on. Having 1 single board made is very expensive. I won't give out the exact pricing, but you could buy 2 NVidia GTX 580's for the price of one board. (This is why I'm really motivated to not give up on this project, as I've already invested a lot of my own money and time into it) Maybe if 10 people want to buy a prototype of the board I'm using, it'll probably cost $300 each, but you'll have to wait a couple of weeks for the parts and the boards to get manufactured. I don't know if anyone would be interested in doing this.

The hardware and parts have already been completely finalized. I don't really want to give out part numbers right now because it's still uncertain whether I'm able to get enough pre-orders to start shipping. If it turns out I can't get enough pre-orders, then I'll turn this project into my senior project, the University will own it and I'll have no control over it anymore. However, if there's enough pre-orders, when the first units of Paradise does get shipped out more information will be given to help software development. By the time Paradise ships out, kernel sources and instructions on how to create the OS image I'm using will be available guaranteed.

And yes, I would love to have help with the software. I think it would be best to create our own Linux distro for Paradise. We should start selecting and planning out what type of software we want to include in our package repository. I suggest you guys start looking at software that would seem reasonable to port to Paradise.

@Uberspire, actually the GUI size was pretty fine in the first page screenshots. Could you use that one instead?
I'm certain that with modifications to the software we could get the interface to be of the same proportions as the screens on the first page. However, the screenshots on the first page came from an emulator for the first prototype simulating a 640x480 LCD so it's a bit misleading in that there is a lot of space in the GUI (the first prototype had a 320x240 LCD). The screenshots were to show I had an emulator working for the first prototype, but now the hardware is way different so the emulator is irrelevant now.

If you guys want, we don't have to use the GUI I'm using. You can run Android or Ubuntu and use icewm, QT, MicroWindows, GNOME Mobile, etc. All the stuff I've shown is just to show the power and what the calculator is capable of doing.

The past week, I've been redesigning the casing (I'm sure you guys will like the new sophisticated, serious and high tech look) and have been trying to convince a friend to let me get in the manufacturing lab here at the University so I could just have a case made using the 3D printer, but it seems very unlikely I'll be given access, so as of now this is as far I can go now with the development of Project Paradise as I'm completely broke. I'm hoping to win the innovations contest here at University, which I may have a high probability of winning only if I can find a way to convince the judges that this product would do well in the market (the deadline for entry submission April 1). Or, I'm very lucky and find someone who's willing to invest in the project, probably very unlikely.

Offline Binder News

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Re: Project Paradise - Ubercalculator
« Reply #118 on: March 06, 2011, 08:41:50 am »
I think you'll win. But to increase the chances, why don't you set up a poll on you'r site. The poll would be a poll of people who would buy the first release vs. who wouldn't. It could be used as proof that there is a market.

EDIT: and about the IDE thing, maybe we could make our own? It could be an C++ to make it more memory-efficient and have a better GUI.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 08:50:57 am by Binder News »
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Re: Project Paradise - Ubercalculator
« Reply #119 on: March 06, 2011, 08:43:51 am »
The new video demoing your prototype looks quite nice. I have to say you really seem to know what you're doing. :) Very nice work!